History of the World . . .

[Mr Dimbleby]

That's fine. I can do things that I have had to give up since I started playing on Thursdays back when we started the old Ultradip.

Keep in touch Capo, let me know when you start another Dip game.

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Thousands of monkeys are creating havoc in the corridors of power, barging into government offices, stealing food, threatening bureaucrats, and even ripping apart valuable documents.

Hey! That dried vomit under the couch looks like a horny toad.

[sekong]

First of all, sorry for last night. When I was too concentrated on game playing, family issue pop up.

I'm writing this because I think I may do some extra contribution to this game: maybe I can do something to help drake with the website. I'm in computer major, and have some free time.

Thanks,

ray

[GNGSpam]

Some things to clear up.

First of all, nothing personnal to Dimble. Dimble has obligations he must fufill, life comes before Civ. He didnt want to bow out and leave us in a lurch, but we found a permenant replacement, and so now he does not need to worry about helping us out. I thank him for his time, but I know he was getting tired. His job apparently is pretty strict, and he couldnt committ a lot of time, further it was obvious he was getting disintrested in his Civ. SunTzu will at the least provide some spice to the Israel position.

Thank you Dimble for your time, and thanks SunTzu for helping out also.

To the Chivalry thing, I dont know what happened. Capo is a pretty good guy, and I dont think he intentially tricked Easthaven. It is possible Easthaven however was confused and made a trade that Sekong would not have, but if that is so, that is no ones fault.

To prevent this in the future, let me suggest this to all future Subs. When they enter the game, whoever their closest ally is, the person who has to leave should designate them, the closest ally should inform the Sub of all prior agreements and stances to other nations. In the Mongols case it would have been China or Australia to tell them whats up, not Capo. Further, Subs should NOT trade techs, make new agreements, or basically ANYTHING significant in the least (unless its time sensetive and obvious what the course of action should be). In essence the Sub will be auto-pilot, manage the civ, maintan status quo. This isnt great for Subs, and im sorry for that, but on the plus side, considering the rate of turnover we have for players, every Sub has a decent shot at a "fulltime" spot =)

Now, to the game. This is a GOOD game. Its VERY exciting and going wonderfully. All problems we have had with it have not been IN game but OUT of game. Its important to remember that. The game is going great, if we could ever play it. Now, we have managed 3 very constant players, Capo, Drake, and Deity, who have played the same civs from the start, and are 3 of the 5 dominant powers. Prometheus has played all except the very first session, and all except 2 as China, and he has done an EXCEPTIONAL Job playing them. Sekong covered Mali for 2 sessions, but has played the last 3 as Mongolia for War4ever and seems set there. I, inexcusably, was absent for 3 sessions due to personnal reasons out of my control. Its not much of an excuse, but I am back, have been on time, prompt, and im set. Thats 6 of the 7 Civs set and have been set for 3 sessions and in all likelyhood will remain set. SunTzu is now Israel, and though he has had some issues in the past, I suspect he is there for good. So we have 7 set people in the Diplogame, have had only the beginning session of China under AI, and everyone now is ready to play some extended sessions. I would say this diplogame is in better shape then quite a few which are forced to run with only 4 or 5 people.

That being said, let the games go on

[sekong]

First, i have to agree with Chris that the game is in great shape. I would hate it if I could not continue to be part of it.

2nd, I would say, Capo, as personal, has earned me great respect till last night. You sure have great ability of organize the group, making the best the decission for the group, and always open for negotiation/discussion. There was miscommunication times, but generally can be solved. I treasure it. As capo suggested, I'll take the game issue within the game.

3rd. about the tech issue. I confirm with deity that Mongolia got a lot help in tech from our alliance with Aussie. The problem happened because I could not play last night, sorry to my allies. Now I think it would be nice if king of Adratic League could tell us what's the details of the so-called "Panama agreement".


Thanks for bearing with me, my friends.

[GNGSpam]

Suggested Rule change/addition

Increase the movement of ALL ships by 2.

[GNGSpam]

I also suggest Caravals have their defense increased from 1 to 2 leaving their final stats at 2/2 (right now they are 2/1, same as the longship)

[drake]

I think 2 add. moves is a lot to ask....I'd vote for one first i think.....

Thanks for the positive vibe sekong.....we definetly need to keep personal issues out of the game

So can you start early next week sekong? Anyone else?

[Guest]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by The Capo on 04-06-2001 09:43 AM</font>
I don't see why I have to answer to this.

I asked him if he would like to exchange technologies, primarily Medicine and Chivalry. He said he would be interested. I asked him what he wanted and I didn't have anything he wanted. So we made a land agreement, an agreement towards the Panama Canal, and a technology agreement. How this is my fault is totally beyond me. He was told by myself and I believe Chris who he was allies with, if he was confused he should have stopped and asked me to clarify his situation, I don't think this is my responsability to not only guess at whether or not he was confused, but remind him that maybe he should talk to his allies.

Besides that point, I don't understand why his allies should have any say other than advisory in his personal dealings. I am not an enemy of the Pacific Pact, and never have been, so how does this even effect you?


<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

We just missed it in the King chat but I feel you are being deceptive Capo.
This is your smiley after bragging in King Chat to everyone about how smart you were to have done this deal:

From Imperator Carlo V D'Habsburg (A.D. 480): >
To King Prometheus, Consul Easthaven X (A.D. 480): East
To King Prometheus, Consul Easthaven X (A.D. 480): I'm just talking to allies
From Consul Easthaven X (A.D. 480): i just gave him chivalry

Your tone in your replies is calm and resasonable but I got a real mischievous sense in the game that you knew you'd pulled off a fast one on Easthaven. You were bragging about it and chatting to all players at the time.

And in story terms don't you think allies would be consulted about that canal issue. Did Easthaven realise you were blocking the canal and charging a toll to other nations? [Not mine though, since I have my own canal ]
And Sekong has asked to be informed of this agreement his civ has signed which he has no knowledge of!

---

I can clearly delineate your game 'characters' but I think 'Capo' blurred that boundary with this incident. You knew what you were doing.

I love your characters.

I just felt your skylarking around and doing this deal was not in the best interests of the game and I'm sure you know that. Sekong or War4ever, as stated, would NEVER have done this deal.

---

I never said to start a new game other than as an extra game. Someone else suggested starting this again, not me.

I'm really prepared to continue with THIS game.
I know we'll get over this and my sense of humour may even return
It is a great game and I want to see it finished.
I can start a bit earlier and play a lot later as a general rule.
Your next Thursday is our Good Friday but still fine by me.

---

I'm a bit sorry I started that thing with Dimb and now it's lead to him out of the game, it seems.
Bit rough but the consensus was there.


------------------
*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924

[Guest]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by GNGSpam on 04-06-2001 02:47 PM</font>
Suggested Rule change/addition

Increase the movement of ALL ships by 2.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I've said this in other games.
You can't change rules mid game.

I was not happy with the Longship suddenly losing its non-sinking ability regardless of whether it was a rules.txt mistake or not.
And I'm certainly dead against increasing ship movement now.
It changes so many strategic things...

Games must start and end on the same level playing field.

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*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924

[The Capo]

Dimb, you don't even have to ask bro, I'll always keep in touch I consider you one of my "crew" as far as Civ goes, I'd never let anything sh1tty (thanks for the idea Drake) happen to you unless I thought it was meaningful and impersonal.

Sekong I think Drake and the rest of the group would appreciate as much input anyone in the group (or out of the group for that matter) could give towards the website.

Again, I want to stress that if anyone has a problem with the way the game is going, or the players in the game, or whatever they should make it known, no use having bad blood and hidden animosity. If anyone agrees that the game should be scrapped I want to hear them say it, because frankly as I've said this game won't end as long as I have a say so, its too freakin good to let drop. Sekong I thank you for CapTVK's assessment of a diplogame, but have already read his FAQ and while its informed and well-written it is far from diplo-gospel.

My idea of a diplogame is the opposite of the commong idea which is to have numerous restrictions. In my game there are little to no restrictions (other than as far as bribing goes) and this includes removing SDI and changing Fundy, I want to stress the liberty one should take, Diplomacy is not the same as Democracy. I don't expect a bunch of little United Nations running around, I want a plethora of characters, which is why I try my hardest to bring to the table a new type of leader.

When I act the way I act, I am representing a realistic type of person: A European Monarch. No less a Habsburg, I think anyone who has even the slightest amount of knowledge of 17th century Europe would know that if anything I am doing the Habsburgs no justice at all, they were arrogant brash egotists, while I may be those from time to time, I am more egalitarian than they have ever been (and for that matter than most European Monarchs whether Bourbons, Habsburgs, Brandenburgs, etc.) have been. If you feel my character is bad, then judge him with your characters, don't jude me.

Again, muchas gracias to Easthaven, I give him a lot of sh1t but he's a stand up guy.

Deity: Don't hate the player hate the game.

[Guest]

Back to the story:

Paul is totally frustrated and upset at the apathy in the world over the Panama issue.
Surely there are some nations of principle?
The AL has blocked the passageway with a tri that is within the city radius of the Aussie city of Panama and are I believe they are charging a toll.
You may not need to use the seaway through Panama at the moment but there comes a time when you may.
Paul is also curious about the appearance of Mali Longships in the area that are also on sentry duty? Why is this?

Australia itself continues to prosper but Paul¡¦s pre-occupation with South America is a bit alarming. He's always been fascinated by banana republics and now he has several growing quite well (republic colonies not bananas!) but with a Republican Government corruption swipes over half of the income.

Back in Broken Hill a total c**k-up occurred. They were meant to build The Oracle. But no, these outback hicks rush built the Oracle and then called it Sun Tzu's War Acadamy, losing some 100 shields or 2 caravans
Anyway, that may prove to be a blessing in disguise as World affairs unfold....

Trade to distant nations is at present a dream but the imminent arrival of Navigation may prove to change this. Currently plans are focussing on trading with our great allies, the Mongols and the Chinese.

Our new technology program is developing well.

The mysterious King Shakeem of the Zulus was keen to send caravans of exotic goods to Australia but we have yet to see any sign of such goods? He also proposed that we share in building a massive road program in South America. Paul would like to have exchanged maps to clarify where our respective cities are but he did not want my allies to see his map, even if our allies were happy to trade maps. Bit tricky this, maybe we just send explorers into each others land?


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*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by deity (edited April 07, 2001).]</font>

[SunTzu]

Well SunTzu is in for the long haul, i was informed on some treaties, and how dimb didn't even try and get a piece of the americas......well i gotta get some land/money/science somehow. So i'm thinking of cancelling this treaty banning my to ask for toll for the Suez Canal. Well....i think next session on gonna charge 10gold for each turn of use at the canal. Gotta fund the rising Israelite Nation somehow

[sekong]

Now he is bullying on his only ally. Let's see how far he can go. The Consul of Mongol smiles.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by sekong (edited April 07, 2001).]</font>

[The Capo]

I am not bullying on my ally. His country in involved in a treaty that has this rule in effect. I am informing him of the alliance he has signed. Sun Tzu may speak with me privately if he has issues here, but the treaty has been signed, and there are some specifics he should know about before he does something like this.

If I had failed to tell Sun of the parameters of the agreement, thus prompting him to block the Suez and charge money, which in turn would cost him upwards of 300 gold, then I would be bullying him.

It looks like Mongolia is arguing a stance that does not exist. I have yet to bully any nation, I'd like some specific examples of my "bullying" ways. OBJECTIVE examples would be better, but since we are talking about the Mongols we are most likely going to get a one sided story/argument, I await his rebuttal...

[sekong]

It was just my role playing speaking. I hope Capo did not take it personal. Otherwise, I don't dare/want to continue.

Peace,

Ray

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by sekong (edited April 07, 2001).]</font>