A word about GameLeague and the new league...

[KhanMan]

As many of you are aware, Gameleague has, for sometime, offered an interesting way of playing Civ2 mp, using a system of per-set alliances between players called "tribes".

You may also know that there have been repeated problems with cheating in Gameleague.

It has recently been announced that the player known as Sean is also EyesOfNight, once know as QuickAcorn and Infusco. Sean/Eyes is a proven cheater, as, by his own admission, he altered the rules.txt in a game with Alexander's Horse, without his opponent's knowledge of consent. (a save of this, as proof, is availible to any interested:

khanmaned@hotmail.com

Many of you have played him, and know him to be also a very disrespectful player.

Sean/Eyes is also the current administrator of the Strategies section of Gameleague.

When some of the members of Gameleague voiced concern that Gameleague was employing a known cheater, the administrators responded that they made the rules, and, as there are no formal rules, they decide what goes. As such, they decided not to take any action, and to ignore all accusations as unapplicable to Sean.

With respect towards Gameleague, members of the honorable tribes of Sayen, Knightstalkers, and OWL have chosen to leave Gameleague play and form there own league, which will not tolerate or employ cheaters.

This fledgling league can be found at:
http://civilizationtribes.50megs.com/

For those of you who have wondering what was going on over in Gameleague, and to quiet rumors or accusations you may hear, I have submitted this thread as an explanation.

If you wish to make any comments or suggestions about the new or old leagues, Chuckle's thread is also availible.

-KhanMan

[Guest]

Unbelievable really!
And I can't believe that people say that changing the rules.txt is not a cheat because it helps both sides!!
BUT this is only true ONLY if you know about it!
Ming also concluded this was a full on cheat, from memory.

It seems very poor judgement by GL to appoint someone with this track record.
They lose credibility.
Very unwise move.
And Sean's posts sound just as obnoxious as Eyes. He hasn't changed IMHO.


------------------
*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924

[IamSlowwHand]

To use Sean's knowledge in the role of a Moderator was not a bad idea.
He does have knowledge of good strategy.
The problem, IMHO, was that is active mind couldn't stop there.
I proposed a "Hack League", for people who wanted to compete on that level, but it was met with close minded rejection.
Being a mere Cheat is not a problem, it's being an undiscovered Cheat that causes the grief.
Sean had much insight to offer, if you can put up with the negativiity he displays on some days.
An alternate League is not bad, because competition is good.
But to slam dunk the Moderator's for seeing the positives is not right.


<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by IamSlowwHand (edited November 12, 2000).]</font>

[KenThur]

Puke! Gag! ):
For some to defend / justify an honesty & personality-"challenged" slimeball based on the fact that "he has much to offer" = horse manure! That's like saying let's consult w/ the guy that figured out how gas the Japanese subway... he only killed & ruined a few lives. Gosh, look at the people he didn't kill or make sick.
I'll bet U voted for Clinton?! On the logic that he only banged teenagers once in awhile in OUR White House. It was just little white lies he told to protect his family. Look at all he knows about manipulating public opinion. PUKE! Multiple PUKES.

That 1 sick individual(?) has caused more grief & bad blood & wasted time(like this) than any 6 other people in the gaming community. He is ONE SICK PUPPY & i'v told him that directly. (only wish i could personally).
It IS a true shame that a genuis like he obviously is, wastes it on mostly negative endevors.
===========================================
As for the "new, improved" league... i'm certainly interested in re-joining as part of my re-activating Civ play.
Please contact me or give a link to where U R forming up.

[Wezil]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>&lt;font size=1&gt;Originally posted by deity on 11-12-2000 05:20 AM&lt;/font&gt;
Unbelievable really!
And I can't believe that people say that changing the rules.txt is not a cheat because it helps both sides!!
BUT this is only true ONLY if you know about it!

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

There are many in GL that don't see this as a problem or see it as a 'minor' cheat (ie deserving of a minor penalty). Sad really.


Khanman - Good luck in your efforts but w/o the sanctioned forum space provided by ACS (to an inept crew presently) your chances are slim. GL will continue in it's substandard form for awhile yet until the powers that be here realise it is a problem.

edit: KenThur - ummm...well said? Why people associate with players proven to have no credibility I'll never understand.

------------------
"These were giants [The ‘Hellfire’ Club]. They had standards - not like these whimpering mashers who keep fouling our headlines today."

Free the D**d Threads!!
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Wezil (edited November 12, 2000).]</font>

[IamSlowwHand]

Counterpoints:
1) Yes, we could learn from the "Gassers" a method of defense.

2) I did in fact vote for Clinton, on both elections.
Why? I was tired of double digit inflation and unemployment. Not to mention a national debt (now payed, thank you very much).
It was the theory when I was in school that we would ALWAYS have unemployment of around 8%, due to people switching jobs, not wanting to work, etc. Ahem, the educator's were proven wrong.
Paying off the National Debt and now having suplus speaks for itself.

3) Who he bangs is more his wife's concern than mine.

4) I don't think he's had sex with a teenager as President, though being with Monica might be counted as beastiality, as she's a hog.

5) If you're going to retch, please do so in private.
It's disgusting.

6) Though I think there's more to Civ than who can get in the other's face first, the Strategy section being put together is well thought out, and written in a way that is understood easily.



<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by IamSlowwHand (edited November 12, 2000).]</font>

[Wezil]

You miss the point Sloww. As good as Eyes/Acorn/Infusco/Sean may be for the content of GL he is the kiss of death for serious players. I don't play GL b/c of prior unresolved absurdities in the league, but I can assure you this latest maneuver does absolutely nothing to increase my faith in the organisation. The opposite actually.


------------------
"These were giants [The ‘Hellfire’ Club]. They had standards - not like these whimpering mashers who keep fouling our headlines today."

Free the D**d Threads!!

[IamSlowwHand]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>&lt;font size=1&gt;Originally posted by Wezil on 11-12-2000 11:10 AM&lt;/font&gt;
You miss the point Sloww. As good as Eyes/Acorn/Infusco/Sean may be for the content of GL he is the kiss of death for serious players. I don't play GL b/c of prior unresolved absurdities in the league, but I can assure you this latest maneuver does absolutely nothing to increase my faith in the organisation. The opposite actually.



<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
Wez, I respect you greatly, but I don't miss the point.
He is only a "kiss of death" if unknown.
He makes no effort to play League games of any fashion.
He does offer insight.

The basics are, don't play anyone you're not familiar with (sad but true), and don't throw out the baby with the bath water, as it were.

AND BTW, I would NEVER have thought in months past that I would be coming to the defense of the person also known as EyesofNight.
NOW, I can look forward to both being grilled for doing so by the public at large, and by Sean, if in Eyes persona, saying "Blank Off dude, I don't need the support."
The world turns, and open minded people look for the positives, while guarding against the negatives.
THAT is the point.


&lt;font size=1 face=Arial color=444444&gt;[This message has been edited by IamSlowwHand (edited November 12, 2000).]&lt;/font&gt;
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by IamSlowwHand (edited November 12, 2000).]</font>

[Wezil]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Wez, I respect you greatly, but I don't miss the point.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Mutual. Now that the niceties are out of the way...

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>He is only a "kiss of death" if unknown.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Actually I think it is the other way around. The only way Eyes would be tolerable to many in the Civ community were if he were unknown. Sadly, this is Eyes we are debating. A person completely incapable of any kind of low profile. It's not in his nature.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>He makes no effort to play League games of any fashion.
He does offer insight.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

He will play GL again. You, I and he all know it. As to his insight.... geez Sloww. What bit of condescending, arrogant, insulting dribble that he posts do you find insightful? If there is insight in there I don't see it when I stop reading after the first line.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>The basics are, don't play anyone you're not familiar with (sad but true), and don't throw out the baby with the bath water, as it were.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Again, THERE is the point. Folks are familiar with him.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>AND BTW, I would NEVER have thought in months past that I would be coming to the defense of the person also known as EyesofNight.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

At one time I didn't understand the scorn and ire he raised either. I do now.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>NOW, I can look forward to both being grilled for doing so by the public at large, and by Sean, if in Eyes persona, saying "Blank Off dude, I don't need the support."
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I won't grill you. I just disagree completely. As to Eyes....Yeah, I can at least expect a flaming.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>The world turns, and open minded people look for the positives, while guarding against the negatives.
THAT is the point.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Then guard.

------------------
"These were giants [The ‘Hellfire’ Club]. They had standards - not like these whimpering mashers who keep fouling our headlines today."

Free the D**d Threads!!
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Wezil (edited November 12, 2000).]</font>

[Chuckles39]

i think anew league is a great idea, we can get away from people like EyesofBS and Slowwmind...

anyway, i would enjoy greatly, playing in a tribe game with some apolytoners, you guys have the rep for honest good gaming...

unlike gameleague...
petty crap, and EyesofNight...
does there really need to be another reason to play mature people?

------------------
Prince of Gameleague...

Lessor Sayen of the Sayen Tribe...

[Sean Leitzinger]

Actually Clinton wasn't responsible for the good economy. Whenever there's a good economy it's usually because of the president before them. And in this case it has nothing to do with the president. Clinton just hit the office at the right time. Especially since the internet was just beginning to take off and E-Commerce was beginning. If anyone should be taking credit for the great economy it should be Al Gore since he did after all invent the internet.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Sean Leitzinger (edited November 12, 2000).]</font>

[Sean Leitzinger]

Oh, one more thing. If I were to say start my own tribe and enter it in your tribe page under a new name and IP, wouldn't that mean then you have cheaters in your league? For that matter how does that make you better than gameleague? And while we're on the topic, how are you going to keep cheaters out? Sounds to me like you're grilling gameleague for something you're going to have too. League of honorable players...HA! Ever ladder that has some sort of competitive element to it will have cheaters. It's that way with every single game there is. Deal with it.

[Andz83]

Did you receive my mail, KhanMan?

[Wezil]

Sean - There is a big difference between people sneaking around under an alias *cough* and a league intentionally accepting those it knows (and have been proven) to be cheats.


------------------
"These were giants [The ‘Hellfire’ Club]. They had standards - not like these whimpering mashers who keep fouling our headlines today."

Free the D**d Threads!!

[Ming]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Sean Leitzinger on 11-12-2000 04:11 PM</font>
Ever ladder that has some sort of competitive element to it will have cheaters. It's that way with every single game there is. Deal with it.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Another reason why I only play with people I know and trust from Apolyton. What good is a ranking system when all it seems to do is bring out the worst in people.