A Classical Diplo?

[Ljube]

Howies should be changed. Their strength has to be reduced. Dreadnoughts are OK, they may need to come around a little bit later.

I suggested legions get defence of 3 to make them useful. I don't know anybody who uses legions for attacks and they were the primary force of the Roman Empire, so I thought, simply for historical reasons (the same reasons dreadnoughts are around) to make this change that would enhance the use of legions.

Further to this, I think crusaders should disappear or move to chivalry branch. The reason for this is to punish those civs that pay little attention to the military and develop only nice wonder techs.

Caravans are too powerful. Maybe limitation to foreign trade Ozzy proposed, or increase in their cost (unlikely) might reduce their importance and effectiveness.

[Ljube]

From the historical point of view, it is completely unrealistic to have monarchy in 2000 BC or even earlier. With France in our test game, I got monarchy in 2000 BC and switched in 1850.

In addition to this, I had open space for expansion and perfect land capable of supporting at least 20 cities in France and Germany alone.

Two conclusions:

The science needs to be slowed down. Monarchy should be researched around 20 AD, not 2000 BC.

France needs to be weakened a little bit.

[Ljube]

Originally posted by atawa

Also the dreadnought unit that is in play is WAY too powerfull in the time it comes into play.

I agree with this, but so is the ironclad at the time it comes to play. If you have the Lighthouse or Sun Tzu, you can simply forget anything else and concentrate on naval units, mass produce them and kill everyone.

This is where diplo comes in the picture. If you do that, if you attack one innocent, defenceless victim, all other nations will join forces against you. And there is an old Latin saying

Nec Hercules contra duos

The strength of any particular weapon or unit is offset by the diplomatic activities and the complicated network of treaties - just like in real history. You rarely could see total annihilation of a nation in the history because of the ties both the aggressor and the victim had with other nations.

[Ljube]

Maybe we should ban certain wonders.
Probably Magellan and very possibly Sun Tzu. Or make them expire earlier.

I think we should make nearly all wonders expire.
I definitely think both Michelangelo and Bach should expire. And Leonardo is the most ridiculous wonder. It should be banned.

Great Wall should expire with gunpowder. Great Library should expire with University (this is from civ 1).

[Ljube]

I am a stern supporter of huts. The reason is that huts bring the element of uncertainty in the game and they encourage exploration even beyond the borders one is planning to defend.

The argument that huts unbalance the game doesn't hold water, because the start positions are so unequal they unbalance the game much more. In fact, my experience proves that poor start is by far more crippling than poor hut luck. In fact, good huts sometimes can't compensate for very poor starts and crappy land.

So, I am for huts. And huts are great fun, cause they can be good or bad and it's luck, but in real life so many things are decided by luck factor. Life is by far less determined than this game and I think huts are great way of achieving that level of uncertainty in this game which claims to be a simulation of real life and real history events and developments.

[Ljube]

When do we start? If we start this week, I am going to sub for Ozzy cause he can't play. I am completely free, so I accept any time of day or night

[Zylka]

Looks like this Friday night it is, folks. Specification arrives tonight.

[deity]

So if it's Friday night -
Greeks will be ozzy/Ljube
French = atawa
Spanish = Zylka
Egyptian = Makeo
Romans = Dangime (Frank)
Carts = deity
Babs = (was Berzerker but if we play USA Fri night...) Winzity was very keen to get a full civ and Prom said Fri nights were good for him I think

[deity]

Originally posted by ljcvetko
Howies should be changed. Their strength has to be reduced. Dreadnoughts are OK, they may need to come around a little bit later.

I suggested legions get defence of 3 to make them useful. I don't know anybody who uses legions for attacks and they were the primary force of the Roman Empire, so I thought, simply for historical reasons (the same reasons dreadnoughts are around) to make this change that would enhance the use of legions.

Further to this, I think crusaders should disappear or move to chivalry branch. The reason for this is to punish those civs that pay little attention to the military and develop only nice wonder techs.

Caravans are too powerful. Maybe limitation to foreign trade Ozzy proposed, or increase in their cost (unlikely) might reduce their importance and effectiveness.

I think Frank has balanced the units quite effectively and the curent pak is tried and tested mostly.

Modern Infantry counters howies with pike flag against 2 mvt units.

Dreads are expensive to build and haven't been used decisively on their own in any games thus far. If anyone follows atawa's DREADfull strategy the other civs will stop it!

Legions, I dunno. I agree with your historical argument though.

Better not mess with Crusaders, caravans or any other unit or we run risk of making too many untested changes. We need to start this week!

I'd prefer tech trading to none at all and take Berz's point about it developing into a team match if you can only trade techs with your ally, but I honestly think this is the way to go to keep the lid on tech trading.

[deity]

If I ever needed a sub I'd be keen to enlist Prometheus if he's not playing his own civ.

[Frank Johnson]

If you want to make a change to legions, I'd suggest pikeman flagging them. But, then again, I don't want to work with special units for civs.

[Zylka]

Originally posted by deity
Babs = (was Berzerker but if we play USA Fri night...) Winzity was very keen to get a full civ and Prom said Fri nights were good for him I think

I'm going to have to ask for Dylan Baker to have a chance with us as the Babs. He was one of the first initially invited, and is a good, solid player looking to join dip games on a regular basis from here on in. So for now if Berz can't make it on the Friday night basis, I'm going to slot Dylan in.

First session; Friday December the 26th - Possible start at 9:00pm EST (or earlier):

Greeks = Ljube (Ozzy regular)
French = Atawa
Spanish = Zylka
Egyptian = Makeo
Romans = Frank Johnson
Carts = deity
Babs = Dylan Baker

PLEASE CONFIRM AVAILABILITY FOR THIS START DATE, and specify if you're willing & able to start earlier in the evening. Berz - please respond ASAP if you can possibly manage Friday.

Extended rules will be posted tommorrow. Keep on civin'

[Makeo]

Confirm for this friday start. If possible I'd like to go for an earlier start. Maybe an hour or so, but its ok if not.

[deity]

I confirm. Earlier start by an hour is fine as it's Sat morning here

[Frank Johnson]

I confirm. Early is good.