Map making

[DrSpike]

Understandably the thread linked to raised some doubts that needed to be addressed. Namely SG pointedly asks if both parties have map-making. Perhaps he means that both parties having map making make the AI more likely to want to swap, and that the capacity is always there as you say. Perhaps he is just mistaken as well. Either way, it was worthy of clarification.

[finbar]

Oh well. Slow Thinker has linked that year-old thread to this one, so we can probably look forward to an ongoing stoush.

I propose we all go into our rules.txt and change Map Making to Building Things That Float.

No. On second thoughts, Hydey will think he can build a duck.

[Alexander's Horse]

this place could be a sheltered workshop

[rah]

I'm convinced.

Thanks fin for confirming something I don't need to know.

[Hydey]

Did finbar say duck?

or did dinbar say f

[Ljube]

Originally posted by finbar


Nong. MP and SP are exactly the same when it comes to maps. As soon as you meet another civ in the game, you have the option to exchange maps. In SP, you will just about always need the other civ to be Worshipful (or Enthusiastic, at the least) in order for them to agree to an exchange. Handing them a zillion techs usually does the job. Unless you've got a dodgy reputation. Next turn, of course, regardless, they're back to hating your guts.

Well, I must have played hundreds of games in single player and I have never been able to exchange maps with a civilisation that didn't have map making. It works like this: On our first contact, I sign a peace treaty and want to exchange maps. I know that they must be at least enthusiastic, but this one civ has been a tough nut to crack. Since they didn't have map making, and didn't want it at all, in order to exchange maps, I was forced to give them 3 extra techs even after we have reached worshipful, and then, as a second option, map making appeared, which I gave them promptly, and finally they exchanged maps with me. I emphasize that I have tried to exchange every time when they became worshipful, but success came only after I gave them map making. Coincidence?

[DrSpike]

Hehe I'm not sure, but you disagreed with Finbar so he'll come by shortly to call you slow.

[finbar]

Couldn't be bothered.

[SlowThinker]

Ah, finbar admited a mistake...

[DrSpike]

No he didn't. Have you determined whether he made one yet?

[Carolus Rex]

Originally posted by finbar
For crying out loud! It's very simple!

You have the capacity to trade maps in SP as soon as you meet another civ in the game. Just as in MP. In SP, whether an AI civ will agree to trade maps is another matter. But the capacity exists. Start an SP game, meet a civ, look at the options available under "Have A Proposal To Make". You can ask to exchange maps.

The thread to which Slow Thinker linked talks about the AI civs' willingness to trade maps. The rule of thumb is that an AI civ will probably agree to exchange maps if:

(a) Their attitude is Worshipful or Enthusiastic. They will rarely agree at a level below Enthusiastic;

(b) You have a Spotless reputation. They will rarely agree if your reputation is less than Spotless;

(c) You are allied with the AI civ in question. But even this doesn't guarantee they will agree.

So, once again, for the slow people - and the very slow person, the economist - you have the capacity to exchange maps with an AI civ from the first meeting. Whether or not the AI civ will agree to an exchange is a different matter.

No, no, no...

Ok, another economist adds to the confusion. If the AI doesn't have Map Making there will never be an exchange of maps no matter how much they regard you. The reply is always "We don't need your useless maps!".

So, while the option (or "capacity" as you put it) indeed always exists under the "Have a Proposal to Make"-menu it will never actually work without the AI having Map Making. I guess it's convenient programming (otherwise they would have needed two menus: one before Map Making is discovered and one after).

Maybe we're splitting hairs here, but that's one thing economists are good at...

Edited: Put in a space between one of the commas and one of the "no":s... Yes, it's true. Being a perfectionist slows down life so much ...

Carolus

[Carolus Rex]

BTW, this reminds me of the annoyance of not being able to choose among all your techs when you want to give some of them (including Map Making to be able to trade maps) to the AI.

Carolus

[DrSpike]

Hehe, that's not splitting hairs. If you are correct then Finbar was flat wrong. Guess this "slow economist" was right to try to clarify the issue.

[Carolus Rex]

Well, let's hope I'm right. We've kind of singled ourselves out on this one...

Carolus

[deity]

No wonder finbar said he hated Economists...