No announcement yet.

OCC 2003 Comparison Game #2

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    There was not much discussion beyond that thread, which is why most players do not know (or remember) that Paul decided to ban the use of this trick in his subsequent fortnightly OCC comparison games.


    • #32
      Could anyone bump, or even just link to, the thread with a summary of the rules decided for these OCC comparisons. I'm going to play it this weekend and would like to keep things above board, even if the Celts decide to wipe me off the globe through no fault of my own.


      • #33
        Below are the set of rules from Paul's Guide, which is the standard. I think that for this game the size one settler trick is perfectly okay to use, because the Guide was never formally updated to prohibit its use. For future OCC games, I think it should be up to the person starting them to define any extra rules for their particular game.

        (from Paul's OCC Strategy Guide)

        1.2. RULES
        You are allowed to settle one city. You are not allowed to settle more cities or to get cities through conquest or bribery. It is of course not allowed to access the cheat menu. It is also not allowed to reload a game to change anything that did not go as you wanted it to go. There is only one occasion where reloading is allowed which is explained in section 1.2.2 (advanced tribes).

        1.2.1. GAME SETUP

        A game must be started with the following options set: random map, raging hordes, 7 civilizations. You may also start a game by loading a one city comparison game. Results of comparison games will only be recognized if they are made at the first attempt on the game. See section 3 (comparison games) for more details.

        1.2.2. ADVANCED TRIBES

        If a goody hut results in an advanced tribe you should reload. The easiest way to handle this is to save the game just before you enter the hut. You can then just reload that save and enter the hut again. If you forget to save you may reload the autosave from the beginning of the turn. In that case you must move your units the same as the first time, you must handle all diplomatic contacts the same way as the first time, all battles must have the same outcome (not only the winner, but also the amount of damage) and any huts you entered before the one that gave the advanced tribe must also give the same results as the first time you played the turn.

        In order to be able to compare results of players in similar circumstances comparison games may be distributed. In order to prevent players from getting advantages by knowing the map and the other civilizations in the game results of comparison games will only be recognized if they are made at the first attempt. Results of second and later attempts at the same game will not be recognized.


        A comparison game must be started with the same options as set in section 1.2.1 (game setup). The game may be saved in 4000 BC, but if you want to give players more equal circumstances from goody huts you may also save at a later year. In the second case the following restrictions apply: the game may not be saved later than 3000 BC, you may not yet have settled a city and you may not have made contact with other civilizations.


        A comparison game must be made available to all players who want to play it either by e-mail or by making it available for download from the internet. The existence of a comparison game must be published on the Apolyton Civ2 Strategy forum where you must also announce how players can get a copy of the comparison game. You can find some comparison games in section 3 (downloads) where you can also find my email address if you have a comparison game you want to make available for download from this site.

        1.4. TRICKS AND CHEATS
        Civilization II has some features that are not described in the manual. Some players consider the use of these features as cheating, others don't. We have had a vote among OCC players at Apolyton to decide how to deal with these features. This vote has resulted in the following results:

        1.4.1. AIRBASES ON HILLS

        Besides their official effects airbases also work as farmland and railroads. This gives players extra food on mined hills. The majority of the voters decided that it should NOT be allowed to build airbases on hills in the city radius.

        1.4.2. "SUPERSTACK"

        Bombers can only be attacked by (stealth) fighters. This means that if you let a bomber end its turn on the same square as one of your units that unit can't be attacked by other units except fighters. The majority of the voters decided that you may use this feature in OCC games.


        If you build your city on a hill you can't mine that hill. However, if you start mining the hill and build a city on that hill before the mine is finished you can get a mine on the city square. The majority of the voters decided that you are allowed to mine your city square.


        Rushbuying a unit is cheaper if you first buy the cheapest unit you can build, then switch to the next cheapest, buy that and so on until you buy the unit that you wanted to build. This incremental rushbuying may be used in OCC games.

        1.4.5. FOOD CARAVAN TRICK

        It has recently been discovered that a city can use food caravans to set up food trade routes with itself. Using this trick it is also possible to get your city to grow in population even if you have a food shortage. It is not known exactly in what circumstances this will work and it may be version specific. This use of food caravans is NOT allowed in OCC games. You are of course still allowed to use caravans to help build wonders or to disband them to contribute to whatever you are building.


        • #34
          Thanks, Solo, for reposting Paul's rules. Some are obviously designed for the Fortnightly Games. For the purposes of this round I was assuming a continuation of the rules SG(1) set up. Just to clarify, though: FCT and Airbase on Hill are OUT, Size 1 Settler is IN, though the starter of the next round may change that. Personally I think the challenge of OCC should extend to the "in flight" period as well; if not then it would be much easier to defend with multiple conquered or fast-grown cities. The no-palace trick would also then be available too.

          My goal in this game was to encourage those who are new or rusty with OCC to give it a go.


          • #35
            I wouldn't consider myself either new or particularly rusty, but I still didn't manage to win it!
            I have to admit to some Gittish consumption during the game, and foolishly played it in one sitting, which meant that I was doing really well until the late game when the wine started to take it's effect.
            I had a Hides repeater to Berlin, which paid out vast amounts and set me up really nicely, but I threw it all away at the end by forgetting where I'd put the sheet showing how many SS sections I needed, getting all mixed up, and also foolishly giving Fusion Power to the Germans just because they turned up outside my city with three dragoons and demanded it as the price of maintaining our alliance. The barbs decimated my farmland later on, but by then I was just trying to buy SS parts. I forgot to sell my library, uni and research lab when I got Fusion Power, and just generally made a hash of the ending.
            Got what I deserved though. Doubt that I'll go back and play the game from one of my middle ages saves, when I was doing well. I'll just start another from scratch!
            Attached Files


            • #36
              Solo, thanks for the clarification. I didn't recall the OCC discussion here that you bumped, but I do remember a later one at CFC where it was decided that it was OK. It might be difficult to get a meaningful group opinion now - polls are easier now but posters are rarer. I think the comparison game poster (in this case Solo) should be able to decide the rules. If you prefer I will eschew my favorite opening ploy from future OCC games.

              In my defence, I did have to work the gold mountain in this game for several turns in order to achieve the size one settler, which I thought qualified as a strategy decision (...)


              • #37

                I agree that whoever starts the game should decide the rules, and this game was started by Elephant who has permitted use of size one settler. It's fun to use, when allowed, and I guess I was just lamenting my lost opportunity. No need to make a defense when none was needed.


                • #38
                  Wish I had thought of it too. But I think I went Rep in 1650 too (I'm at the wrong machine right now) so it may not have mattered.


                  • #39
                    OCC 2003 Comparison Game #2

                    I have finished typing my log. My arrival date was 1797, so was able to slip in before the 1800’s in spite of some minor bad luck and some OCC rust.

                    BC years

                    4000 hut – archer, Tenochtitlan founded
                    3850 warrior, hut – 50g
                    3750 Alphabet
                    3450 Size 2
                    3400 contact Germans – peace, trade for Ceremonial Burial

                    This allowed Monarchy right after Code of Laws, so my original plan of going straight for Republic was discarded.

                    3350 Code of Laws
                    3250 temple
                    3100 Babylonians destroyed by barbarian raiders
                    2950 hut – Monarchy
                    2900 revolution
                    2850 govt. to Monarchy
                    2750 settlers; Germans – give tech, 50g tribute
                    2650 warrior
                    2550 Bronze Working, warrior, Germans – give tech, 100g tribute
                    2100 Currency
                    1650 Size 3, Germans – give tech, alliance
                    1250 Size 4
                    1050 contact Romans – peace, Trade
                    1000 Marco Polo’s Embassy, Romans – trade for Writing

                    MPE was so useful in early landing games, it was given preference over the Colossus, which is usually the first OCC wonder. Since OCC games last longer than EL games, MPE is even more effective because the AI have more time to learn techs that can be traded for. So researching Trade took priority over early Republic and SSC growth.

                    Delaying SSC growth has other benefits: A pathetic power rating allows more alliances, resulting in more gold in the form of gifts. Also, by delaying my own research speed early on, the AI gain more time to acquire techs, allowing more of the non-essential intervening ones to be skipped. For example, in this game I never needed to acquire Masonry or Map Making, which helped reduce tech carrying costs later on.

                    850 dye
                    750 Zulus – give tech, alliance
                    700 gold caravan, Literacy dye(d) to Berlin, 84g
                    675 Germans – agree to alliance against the Romans for 150g
                    650 library
                    600 marketplace, Republic, English – trade for Mysticism, alliance, 100g gift; gold(d) to Berlin, 132g

                    550 Germans – trade for Construction, 25g gift; revolution
                    525 govt. to Republic
                    475 Banking
                    450 hides
                    400 hides
                    375 Americans – peace, give tech, alliance, trade for The Wheel; Indians – peace, alliance, 200g gift; silk to berlin, 66g, third trade route established

                    325 Philosophy, Medicine

                    Now with alliances in place, it’s time to grow. Eight turns after each alliance is formed, allies can be pumped for gold as long as my power rating is lower, so it’s best to ally with the strongest AI.

                    300 hides, we love begins
                    275 Size 5; Zulus – give tech, 50g gift
                    250 Size 6; hides; Indians – trade for Iron Working; Zulus – 50g gift; Germans – trade for Mathematics, give tech, 50g gift

                    225 Size 7; Germans – 25g gift
                    200 acqueduct
                    100 Americans – 125g gift
                    75 Shakespeare’s Theater, we love resumes; Engineering; Americans – 125g gift
                    50 Size 8
                    25 Size 9, Germans – give tech, 50g gift

                    AD years

                    1 Size 10
                    20 Size 11, Indians – trade for Bridge Building, 100g gift; Zulus – give tech
                    40 Size 12, food
                    60 Americans – 50g gift
                    80 food, road complete to Berlin for trade route bonuses

                    By skipping non-essential techs this AI connection allowed the possibility of 1 turn advances later in the game when science was maxed out. Usually techs can only be acquired every two turns in OCC. Not too many one turn advances occurred in my own game, since I ended up with a Moderate power rating when my SSC reached full size. I inadvertantly became my own key civ, making techs about 200 beakers more expensive than what they might have been. One turn advances were only possible a few times and on turns when a freight could be delivered to supplement SSC beakers. The other thing I missed out on was building the Colossus, which the Indians beat me to. I expect other players may have had fewer minor misfortunes and managed more one turn advances for a better landing date.

                    120 we love resumes, Sanitation
                    140 Americans – trade for Seafaring, 50g gift
                    160 sewer system, Size 13, English – peace, give tech
                    180 Size 14
                    200 harbor, Size 15
                    220 Size 16, Zulus – give tech; Americans – 50g gift; English – give tech
                    240 Size 17, wool

                    At this time the Romans were getting the better of my German ally in “our” war, and I was starting to wish I hadn’t allied against them. The German power rating and bank account took a dive and the Romans ones grew, as did my longing for their untapped horde of gold and their knowledge of Astronomy. So I decided risk German ire by contacting the Romans. It turns out the Germans had become so weakened by the Romans and appeased by my tech gifts that they never became a threat. In fact, they reformed another alliance with me later in the game.

                    260 Size 18, Romans – trade for Astronomy
                    280 Size 19
                    300 Size 20, food, university; English – give tech, Americans – 50g gift
                    320 Size 21, we love ends
                    360 food, Zulus & Indians – give tech
                    420 food, Theory of Gravity
                    440 Copernicus’s Observatory
                    460 Romans – trade for Invention; Americans – 50g gift
                    480 Chemistry
                    500 university, Size 22, we love resumes
                    540 Gunpowder, Americans – 50g gift
                    560 wool, Size 23
                    580 Germans – give tech
                    600 food
                    620 Explosives, Romans – trade for Democracy
                    640 Engineers, English – give tech
                    660 Americans – give tech, 100g gift
                    680 Engineers, Navigation
                    700 bank, govt. to Democracy
                    720 food, we love resumes
                    740 food, Size 22
                    760 Physics, Size 23, Zulus - trade for Economics, 50g gift
                    780 food, Zulus – 50g gift, Americans – 100g gift
                    800 coal, Steam Engine, Germans – give tech
                    840 food, Zulus – 50g gift, Americans – 100g gift
                    860 food
                    880 Railroad
                    900 food
                    920 Sir Isaac Newton’s College, Industrialization
                    940 Romans – give tech, alliance, 75g gift
                    960 factory, Magnetism, Germans – give tech, new alliance!
                    980 Zulus – give tech, 100g gift, Americans – give tech 150g gift
                    1000 stock exchange, The Corporation
                    1040 coal, Atomic Theory, Indians – give tech
                    1060 food, Refining
                    1120 food, Metallurgy
                    1160 copper, Electricity, Germans – give tech, coal(d) to Rome, 302g
                    1180 Combustion
                    1200 oil, Steel
                    1220 Germans – give tech
                    1240 food
                    1260 Automobile, copper(d) to Neapolis, 186g, Romans – trade for Leadership, 150g gift
                    1280 superhighways, Mass Production, Germans – trade for Conscription
                    1300 mass transit, Romans – give tech, Zulus – give tech, 50g gift, Americans – 100g gift
                    1340 food
                    1360 Flight
                    1380 food
                    1400 Machine Tools
                    1420 food
                    1440 Electronics
                    1460 wool, Romans – give tech, Zulus – give tech, 50g gift, Americans – give tech, 100g
                    1480 Nuclear Fission
                    1500 gems
                    1510 hydro plant, Nuclear Power
                    1520 diplomat
                    1530 Radio
                    1540 food, Romans – 150g gift
                    1550 Miniaturization, Zulus – 50g gift, Americans – 100g gift
                    1560 offshore platform
                    1570 food, Computers, wool to Rome, 153g
                    1580 research lab, Laser
                    1590 food, Advanced Flight, gems to berlin, 91g; oil to Berlin, 91g
                    1600 food, Rocketry, Romans – trade for Mobile Warfare; Americans – 100g gift
                    1610 food
                    1620 food, Space Flight
                    1630 Apollo Program
                    1640 coal, Plastics, coal(d) to Berlin, 232g
                    1650 coal, Superconductor, coal(d) to berlin, 232g
                    1660 oil, Robotics
                    1670 manufacturing plant
                    1680 SS Module #1, Fusion Power
                    1690 M #2, Romans – 150g gift
                    1700 SS Component #1
                    1710 SS Structural #1
                    1720 C #2
                    1730 S #2
                    1740 S #3
                    1750 S #4
                    1752 S #5
                    1754 S #6
                    1756 S #7
                    1758 S #8
                    1760 S #9
                    1762 S #10
                    1764 S #11
                    1766 S #12
                    1768 S #13
                    1770 S #14
                    1772 S #15
                    1774 M #3
                    1776 C #3
                    1778 C #4
                    1780 C #5
                    1782 C #6, launch 15-3-3-1-1-1, ETA 1797
                    1783 armor
                    1784 armor
                    1785 armor
                    1786 engineers
                    1787 coastal fortress
                    1788 SAM missile battery
                    1789 SDI defense
                    1790 engineers
                    1791 Manhattan Project
                    1792 SETI Program
                    1795 Hoover Dam
                    1797 Arrival on Alpha Centauri

                    OCC is still a lot of fun. Many thanks to Elephant for starting this game.


                    • #40
                      Heard about this game from Elephant over at CFC and finally got a chance to play it out.

                      Launch 1784, Landing 1799

                      Government changes with dates
                      Republic 1850 BC
                      Democracy 220 AD

                      WoWs with dates
                      Colossus 775 bc
                      Copernicus' Observatory 350bc
                      Shakespeare's Theatre 20ad
                      Isaac Newton's College 520ad
                      Darwin's Voyage 1380ad
                      Apollo Program 1660ad

                      Dates of first three trade routes
                      1450 bc - hides Berlin
                      1250 bc - Wool Berlin
                      1200 bc - Silk Berlin

                      Landmark techs with dates:
                      Trade - 1850 bc
                      Construction - 675bc
                      Sanitation - 1ad
                      Refrigeration - 880 ad
                      Automobile - 1100 ad
                      Computers- 1440 ad
                      Space Flight - 1650 ad

                      Dates of Population landmarks
                      8 - 40ad
                      12 - 120 ad
                      28 (max) - 1440 ad

                      General Comments
                      - Got a great start thanks to cash in huts and barb leaders
                      - Used extra settler "feature" to speed growth to size 3. Then went for early republic to celebrate. The only citizen who came from filling food box was the 2nd. #3 was the free built-in settler and all others were from celebrations. I think the early republic approach was quite useful in getting going fast.
                      - Did very little exploring/meeting others after initial adventures finding germans and romans. Eventually got alliance with Germans and never lost it.
                      - Berlin was trading partner for all routes. Roads and RR established on the prime route as early as feasible. Trade routes maxed out at +40 each because berlin never grew beyond size 8.
                      - Not making contact with other civs probably cost some on trading opportunities and beaker costs, but I'm not sure I could have gotten 1 turn techs at any point either way.
                      - It was interesting being short on Vans when it was time to build the ship (Only 14 or 15 available when Apollo completed). However, once techs were done, I quickly made more than enough cash to finish everything. I had to take 2 turns off from building the spaceship to build Stealth fighters to knock back a significant horde of barb fanatics and artillery. They were never a real threat but they posed a nuisance and could have potentially pillaged my improvements.
                      - Occupying the 1 square isthmus just below Berlin made it very easy to keep my city safe at the end when the Romans got a little pissy.
                      - Techs I did not need to research/obtain : Combined Arms, Environmentalism, Feudalism, Fundy, Gen Eng., Monarchy, Monotheism, Polytheism, Pottery, Recycling, Theology, Warrior code. Amphibious warfare was completed after launch, but was completely unnecessary. (I was messing around with tax rate and forgot to zero out science for a few turns)
                      - This is by far my earliest OCC finish, and also my first early republic bid. Not sure if the two are directly related or not.
                      - I left out early fighting (primarily barbs) from the log, and tried to limit discussions of diplomacy to techs I received, money changing hands, and changes in status (peace, war, etc)

                      Log to follow...
                      Death awaits you all...with nasty, big, pointy teeth


                      • #41
                        4000bc Hut 100 gold
                        Timotitlan Founded
                        3800 Alphabet->Code of Laws
                        3700 Hut gold 50
                        3600 Hut horse supported
                        3350 Code of Laws->Writing
                        3150 Build settler into city, Size 3
                        3000 Writing->Ceremonial Burial
                        2950 Mine silk special
                        -- Library built
                        -- Find Berlin, meet germans. Exchange pottery for writing? No. Peace. Alliance? No.
                        2850 Hut - none horse
                        2700 CerBurial ->Literacy
                        -- Meet romans - peace, give Cer Bur. No ally
                        -- Timotitlan diplomat
                        -- hut 100g
                        2350 Literacy->Republic
                        2300 Kill barb leader - 150g!!
                        -- Germans offer alliance! Yes!!
                        -- Temple
                        2050 Embassy with Germans
                        -- Pheasant chopped down, buffalo show up
                        1950 Republic ->Mysticism
                        1900 Revolution
                        1850 Republic Govt. Tax 2/6/2
                        -- Ger: Exchange Literacy for Trade, Republic for Currency
                        1800 Carvan: Hides
                        1750 WLTCD
                        1700 Wool Caravan
                        -- Size 4
                        1650 Size 5, can't celebrate Tax 1/6/3
                        1550 Silk Caravan
                        1500 Mysticism ->Masonry
                        1450 Hides van to Berlin (nd-62)
                        1350 WLTCD
                        1300 Marketplace
                        -- Masonry->Mathematics
                        -- Size 6
                        -- Tax 1/6/3
                        1250 Size 7
                        -- Wool to Berlin (D-140g) Route 2
                        1200 Gold Caravan
                        -- Mathematics ->Astronomy
                        -- Silk to Berlin (nd-74) Route 3
                        1100 Settler
                        1050 WLTCD
                        1000 Astronomy -> Bronze working
                        975 Food Caravan
                        -- Romans - exchange trade for Bronze working, they demand masonry, give it,
                        -- back to size 7
                        925 Research->Philosophy
                        -- Give masonry to Germans (researching it)
                        900 Food Caravan
                        -- Gold Van to Berlin (nd-78g) demand dried up en route
                        875 Philosophy->Golden Age (University)-> Medicine
                        850 Food Caravan
                        800 Food Caravan
                        775 Colossus
                        725 Food Caravan
                        675 Romans - philosophy for Iron working
                        -- Germans - philosophy for Construction, University for Banking
                        650 Barb leader killed 150g.
                        625 Barb leader killed 150g.
                        -- Food Caravan
                        575 Bank
                        550 American ship attacks city, Caravan promoted to vet status
                        525 University
                        475 Food Caravan
                        450 Medicine ->Bridge Building
                        -- germans-50g
                        425 Food Caravan
                        375 Food Caravan
                        350 Cope's
                        300 Dye caravan (Berlin demand)
                        -- Bridge Building ->Theory of Gravity
                        -- Bridge flash built near Berlin completes road bonus up to +9 routes
                        250 Food Caravan
                        -- Kill barb leader 150g
                        200 Food Caravan
                        -- Theory of Gravity ->Horseback riding
                        -- Dye to Berlin (d-196g)
                        -- Romans - trade construction for HBR
                        175 Research -> The wheel
                        150 Dye caravan (Berlin demand)
                        -- The Wheel ->Engineering
                        100 Food Caravan
                        -- Enginering ->Sanitation
                        75 Food Caravan
                        -- Dye to Berlin (d-200g)
                        25 Food Caravan
                        1ad Food Caravan
                        -- Sanitation->Chemistry
                        20 Shakepeare's Theatre
                        -- WLTCD
                        -- Germans 150g
                        40 size 8
                        60 Aquaduct
                        80 Chemistry ->Invention
                        100 Sewer
                        120 size 12
                        140 Dye caravan (Berlin demand)
                        160 Invention->Democracy
                        180 Food Caravan
                        200 Germans talk to dye carvan - gift 50g
                        -- Dye no longer demanded
                        220 Food Caravan
                        -- Democracy->Economics
                        -- Revolution (instant)
                        -- Democracy Government
                        260 Food Caravan
                        -- Germans - Trade democracy for seafaring
                        300 Harbor
                        -- Economics ->Gunpowder
                        340 Size 23
                        360 Gunpowder->explosives
                        380 oops WLTPD Cancelled
                        -- Explosives ->Map Making
                        -- Give up on dye demand, deliver to berlin (nd-87g)
                        -- germans:Give invention for map making
                        400 Research -> Navigation
                        420 Food Caravan
                        460 Food Caravan
                        -- Navigation->Physics
                        500 Food Caravan
                        520 Isaac Newton's College
                        -- Physics->Atomic Theory
                        540 Engineer
                        560 Atom Theory->Steam Engine
                        580 Engineers
                        -- Begin terrain improvments around Berlin
                        600 Steam Engine->Railroad
                        620 Engineer
                        640 Railroad -> Industrialization
                        660 Stock exchange
                        680 Industrialization->Magnetism
                        700 Food Caravan
                        720 WLTPD
                        740 Food Caravan
                        -- size 21
                        760 Metallurgy->Electricity
                        -- RR to Berlin complete - Routes +26
                        -- Roman Diplomat Expelled
                        800 Factory
                        -- Electricity->Conscription
                        -- 2 turn camels possible with no RB
                        840 Meet Indian Horsemen, demands gunpowder. Give it. Peace. Give Navigation, Ally? 50g, War on Germans? No
                        -- Romans steal Mathematics. War? No
                        -- Food Caravan
                        -- Conscription ->Refrigeration
                        880 Refrigeration->The Corporation
                        900 Food Caravan
                        940 Supermarket
                        -- Corporation->Refining
                        980 Freight Food
                        -- Refining->Steel
                        1000 WLTPD
                        1020 Freight Food
                        -- Steel->Combustion
                        1060 Freight Food
                        -- Combustion->Automobile
                        1100 Automobile->Electronics
                        1120 Superhighways (routes +40)
                        1140 Electronics->Communism
                        1160 Hydro Plant
                        -- WLTPD Cancelled
                        1180 Communism->Mass Production
                        1200 Freight Food
                        -- Fort completed on isthmus south of Berlin to control access
                        -- Germans: Exchange Communism for Chivalry, Give theory of gravity
                        1220 Mass Production->Nuclear Fission
                        1240 Mass Transit(no Triangles)
                        1260 Nuclear Fission->Leadership
                        1280 Freight Food
                        1300 Leadership->Tactics
                        -- Kill barb leader 150g
                        1320 Freight Food
                        1340 Tactics->Machine Tools
                        1360 Freight Food
                        1380 Darwin
                        -- Machine Tools ->Nuclear Power ->Miniaturization
                        -- Transform non-gold mountain to hill
                        1400 Miniaturization->Computers
                        1420 Freight Food
                        -- WLTPD
                        1440 Computers->Mobile Warfare
                        -- Size 28 Max
                        1460 Research Lab
                        1480 Mobile Warfare->Robotics
                        1500 Armor built, deployed to Fort Berlin
                        1510 Robotics-> The Laser
                        1520 Offshore platform (production >50)
                        1530 Dye van
                        -- Laser ->Flight
                        -- dye van to berlin (d-348g)
                        -- Damn, even with dye payment, can't make 1 turn tech.
                        1540 Freight Food
                        1550 Freight Food
                        -- Flight->Radio
                        -- Flight cancels colossus
                        1560 Freight Food
                        -- begin reforestation of river valley
                        1570 Freight Food
                        -- Radio->Advanced Flight
                        1580 Freight Food
                        -- Forest added to river - start hunger
                        1590 Freight Food
                        -- Advanced Flight->Espionage
                        1600 Freight Food
                        1610 Freight Food
                        -- Espionage->Rocketry
                        1620 Freight Food
                        1630 Freight Food
                        -- Rocketry->Space Flight
                        1640 Freight Dye (berlin demand - should give > 200g, plus extra beakers)
                        -- Dye to Berlin (d-182g, Damn!)
                        1650 Manufacturing plant
                        -- Space Flight ->Plastics
                        -- 78 shields availiable, flash one more forest into river valley now over 80s
                        -- hunger a potential problem - will disband one engineer
                        -- only 14 vans available, save 9 to start components and modules. Will have to make some more cash along the way
                        -- Put in 3 vans, RB to SofL (400s) add 2 more vans and 1 engineer, production will complete it.
                        -- Apollo Program
                        1670 Structural 1
                        -- Plastics->Guerrilla Warfare
                        1680 Germans talk…give 100g
                        -- S2
                        1690 S3
                        -- Guerrilla Warfare -> Superconductor
                        1700 S4
                        1710 S5
                        -- Superconductor->Fusion Power
                        1720 S6
                        1730 S7
                        -- Fusion Power -> Labor Union
                        -- With Fusion in hand, tax 10/0/0 for a few turns to secure funding for spaceship
                        1740 S8
                        1750 S9
                        1752 Major Fanatic uprising near Timotitlan!
                        -- S10
                        1754 S11
                        1756 S12
                        1758 Romans talk, demand 450g. No. War
                        -- S13
                        -- Labor Union->Stealth
                        1760 S14
                        -- Armor kills Barb fanatic
                        -- Armor comes closer to home for a turn or 2 to fight barbs
                        1762 S15
                        -- Stealth->Amphibious Warfare
                        -- Armor kills Barb fanatic, but badly wounded
                        1764 Stealth Fighter
                        -- SF Kill Barb Artillery, 2 fanatics Vet
                        1766 Stealth Fighter
                        -- SF kills 4 barb artilleries - vet
                        -- Put van into wonder, RB to structural, let production finish Component
                        1768 C1 -F1
                        1770 C2-P1
                        -- Kill Barb artillery, 2 fanatics
                        1772 C3-F2
                        1774 C4-P2
                        1776 Kill Barb fanatic, artillery
                        -- Barb attacks armor (vet)
                        -- C5-F3
                        -- Barb leader "captured" by stealthfighter 150g
                        1778 Roman Dips show up near fort berlin
                        -- C6-P3
                        -- Kill 2 roman dips
                        -- Put 1 van in, RB remainder of Module
                        1780 M1-Solar
                        -- Toast Roman Crusader
                        1782 M2-LifeSupport
                        -- Last freight used
                        -- Roman musket killed at Ravenna
                        1784 M3-Habitation
                        -- Kill roman Diplomat, Ravenna Musket
                        -- LAUNCH 15-3-3-1-1-1
                        1785 Airport
                        -- Amphibious Warfare ->Combined arms (darn, recycling not offered)
                        -- Nail roman cannon
                        1786 Running low on food
                        -- Vet Stealth fighter
                        1787 Barracks
                        -- Kill roman Diplomat, Ravenna Musket
                        1788 Mech infantry
                        1789 Famine - engineers lost
                        -- new Engineer built to replace
                        1790 Engineeer lost, replaced
                        -- Ravenna musket killed, city razed
                        1791 Indians and romans sign alliance against Aztecs
                        -- City Walls
                        1792 Mech infantry
                        -- Roman cannon shot
                        1793 Stealth Fighter
                        -- Kill roman settler
                        1794 Coastal Fortress
                        -- Bab diplomat shot
                        1795 Romans and English sign alliance
                        -- Spy
                        -- English settler, cannon stack killed
                        1796 Spy
                        -- Roman dip killed
                        -- English transport (empty) sunk
                        1797 Indians - peace treaty forced by senate
                        -- Sam battery
                        -- Bab freight killed
                        1798 Stealth fighter
                        -- Fun time…
                        -- ...Kill english Cannon, 2 crusaders where ravenna used to be 2 roman dips, Bab camel-plane goes down
                        -- ...pompeii, pisae emptied (musket, 2 rifles) and english explorer killed along the way.-plane goes down
                        -- ...Kill english transport with 1 other unit on board, empty nottingham. Plane goes down

                        1799 Land spaceship. End Game.
                        Death awaits you all...with nasty, big, pointy teeth


                        • #42
                          Nice games, everyone! I'm tempted to make a comparison chart like Solo made for the EL games. Come to think of it, both of these OCC starts could have made decent EL games too. I've been looking for a small-island start for another OCC game in November; anyone else want to jump in and post an OCC/EL Comparison Game start? Required: Classic/2.42, Deity, Raging Hordes, 7 civs, Restarts On, Normal/Medium Map, no starting techs.

                          BTW, I launched a 15-3-3-1-1-1 in 1792, landing 1807. I kept my alliance with Germans throughout the game, had one with Romans too most of the game, and had both Oil and Gems unblocked at the end.


                          • #43
                            OCC 2 Aztecs 1819 AC Landing

                            I finished my game finally. This one was more difficult to play. The Barbarians took Berlin somewhere around 1350 BC and I could not count on good bonus trade routes. Only in the end game I managed to build a road railroad connection to Leipzig but I could only replace one of my former trade routes to the English. A trade route to barbarian Berlin would have been easier, but in the beginning it was not possible and later the city was to weak to replace one of my older trade routes. Even later I lost riflemen when building the road along Berlin. The Barbarians didn΄t like my activity. The other major problem: In this game all AI except the Americans were weak and I could never establish more than one alliance and never received a gift. Under the circumstances the Landing date was still much better than I expected in between. Very different from my last game but almost the same landing date.

                            The log:

                            4000 hut horse, Tenochtitlan
                            3800 Alphabet
                            3450 Code of Laws, Germans peace
                            3000 Writing, Romans trade for Bronce Working, peace
                            2650 Tenochtitlan library
                            2550 Literacy
                            2300 hut Currency
                            2200 Germans demand tribute, war
                            2050 Republic
                            1900 hut Barbarians
                            1800 Germans peace, no alliance
                            1600 Babylonians start Colossus
                            1350 Berlin is now barbarian
                            1250 temple, start celebration
                            1200 Mystizism, Romans alliance
                            1050 size 7
                            950 Trade
                            900 hut 50g
                            800 Philosophy, Medicine
                            700 MPE, Romans Cartography, Germans Mathematics maps
                            650 barbarian leader 150g,
                            575 English peace maps, Indians war, Americans next to english, no contact, I want to spend my gold first
                            450 Americans peace maps, no alliance,
                            425 hides to London (d) 200g
                            400 Astronomy
                            300 silk to washington 207g
                            275 University
                            175 Colossus, Barb leader 150g
                            150 trade for Construction
                            75 Theory of Gravity
                            50 dye to London (d) 346g
                            25 trade for Horse Riding
                            20 hides to London (d) 381g
                            80 The Wheel
                            120 hides to London (d) 414g
                            140 ST
                            160 Engineering, barb uprising: 4 Horses 3 Chariots
                            220 wine to London (d) 432g
                            240 Sanitation, size 12, trade for seafaring, Bridge Building
                            260 sewerage, Romans end Alliance, English Alliance
                            320 gold to London 348g
                            360 Invention
                            420 size 21
                            460 Democracy
                            540 Navigation
                            580 wool to Washington 348g
                            600 Copernicus physics, size 24
                            640 Steam Engine
                            660 trade for Iron Working
                            680 Railroad
                            720 Magnetism
                            760 Industrialization
                            800 Chemistry
                            820 treasury down to 10g, Indians end war, peace maps (about time), English trade for Gun Powder, give Industrialization, no gift, Germans give Gun Powder (still hoping they will free Berlin one day), still strong, no further Alliances
                            840 Factory
                            860 Atomic Theory
                            920 Explosives
                            980 Metallurgy, Berlin now produces Barb Musketeers,
                            1000 INC
                            1020 Corporation, Engineer
                            1060 Conscription
                            1100 Electricity
                            1120 Engineer, Americans develop Communism
                            1140 Refrigeration
                            1160 Engineer, oil to Leipzig 94g, finally a trade route with the Germans (London replaced)
                            1180 Steel
                            1220 Electronics
                            1240 Supermarket
                            1260 Refinery
                            1300 Combustion
                            1340 Automobile, trade for Feudalism
                            1380 Mass Production, Barb Riflemen bribed
                            1420 Chivalry
                            1460 Leadership
                            1480 back to size 24
                            1500 Nuclear Fission
                            1520 Tactics, trade for Monarchy
                            1540 Machine Tools, Bank
                            1560 Mobile Warfare
                            1580 Miniturization
                            1590 Stock Exchange
                            1600 Computers, trade road to Leipzig comleted, the most difficult I ever built
                            1610 Research Lab
                            1620 Robotics, gold to Leipzig 205g (tried to replace a Washington trade route, but it didn΄t work)
                            1630 Mass Transit, Production at 52, start building Freights (very late )
                            1640 Flight
                            1660 Nuclear Power
                            1680 Radio
                            1700 Advanced Flight
                            1710 Manufacturing Plant, Railroad to Leipzig completed, power rating to mighty, still no alliance, Americans key civ
                            1720 Advanced Flight, Offshore Platform, production at 85
                            1740 Rocketry
                            1752 Space Flight
                            1754 Apollo Program
                            1756 S1
                            1758 – 1786 S2 – S 15, one freight
                            1760 Plastics
                            1768 Superconductor, trade for Polytheism
                            1770 dye to Leipzig (d) 218g
                            1776 Fusion Power
                            1788 – 1792 M1 - 3
                            1802 C1 - C6 finished 188g left
                            1804 Launch 15 – 6 – 3
                            1809 Barbarian Berlin bribed – my little revenge
                            1810 Germans declare war
                            1811 Leipzig captured
                            1812 Hamburg captured, Germans destroyed
                            1817 pay tribute to Americans

                            1819 AC Landing



                            • #44
                              Interesting games, and each one so much different, but still with most player landings clustered around 1800.


                              I have found a small island start with an SSC site having four trade specials, if you want to use it for another OCC game. It might also be suitable for another EL game, if players vote to give that kind of game another go.


                              • #45

                                1809 Barbarian Berlin bribed – my little revenge
                                1810 Germans declare war
                                1811 Leipzig captured
                                1812 Hamburg captured, Germans destroyed
                                1817 pay tribute to Americans

                                1819 AC Landing


                                Is this yet another rule change that I slept through?

                                "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
                                "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit