OCC 2003 Comparison Game #2

[Elephant]

I'd say it was the mid-game (500-1500AD) you were weak on. Check out the updated table above.

[Grigor]

It seems like I need some work on my efficiency from 1300 BC (Trade) to 840AD (Demo).

[Grigor]

Grigor OCC #2 September 03

Summary:
2250BC Library
1650 Republic
1300 Trade
250 Colossus

Size 8
Size 12 100AD
Size 21 840AD (some room for improvement here...)


Initial position: Pop hut? it might be a NONE horse. Or, it might be Warrior Code. But if I ignore it it might disapper when the Civ II program assigns workers.
Here are plans:
NONE unit: explore
gold: size 1 settler, then add to city
Tech: open no more huts till Monarchy

BC
4000 Hut: NONE horse. Ciudad Grigor founded. Working whale. Explore and pop huts until I get 1 tech, then stop? And if not, make size 1 settler, or find them and wait till Monarchy? I can't resist the size 1 settler plan
3950 research Alph
3800 hut:Barbs. Horse dispatches them.
3750 Alph=>CoL
3650 mining hidden special
3500* working Gold to get size 1 settler.
3400 Settlers. Plan: Mine special, Mine gold, fold into city.
3350 CoL=>Writing
3250 Germans: CB for CoL. Writing:9/60. no more huts until Monarchy
3150 A tempting hut. Bravely resist.
3050 Babylonians destroyed by barbs
3000 Writing: 35/60
2800 fold Settler into city, Size 3.
2650 Writing=>Literacy (78) (no Mon - we will go early Rep)
2600 1st Dip. for making embassy with Germans
2450 Zulus destroyed by Barbs. This one is going to be a struggle with no AI help.
2400 German warrior too close. Hut: NONE Archer (Whew!) Gold Mine Finished.
2300* Hut: 50g
2250 Library finished. 12 beakers/turn working gold.
2200 Embassy with Germans.
2150 Literacy=Republic (84). Let's make sure to learn it in an Oedo year. Wounded Barbs appear to NE. They must have taken somebody out.
2000 Diplomat.
1700* Temple=>Barracks ( for MP)
1650 Republic=>Bronze. Instant Rev. gov: Republic. Germans: give Rep, Lit for Bronze, Curr.
1600 WLTCD celebrating. Res Trade (Germans will be too slow).
1500* Size 5.
1300* Trade->Bank
1250 Marketplace=>Caravan. Reconnoiter. Need 3 quick trade routes. Maybe jack up tax for a few turns. Xinning is also possible. 9 techs, res. Banking. Top 5 cities: 1. Ciudad Grigor, 2. Babylon (Barbarian), 3, Washington, 4. Rome, 5. Berlin

1150 hut: NONE horse.
1100* Romans: give Lit for peace. Offer alliance - yes for German War. OK, we declare war on Germans. tribute 50g.
1050 Germans: give Trade for cease-fire.
975 Banking=>Myst
900 Americans start Pyr
875 Germans develop Const. good. hut: NONE horse
800 Embassy with Romans.
775 Myst=> Phil
725 Lux at 30 for celebration ahead of incipient delivery.
700 Hides to Berlin (u, 68) Silk to Veii (d, 206)
675 Size 6 Phil,Maps=>Medicine Evaluate. Hides is moving to Rome. We need a WOW. Germans have constr, but they won't give it up. Hides caravans can be built till I drop. Maybe a Trireme?

650* Size 7, unavoidable red face appears. Lux to 20.
625 Germans: give Phil, peace, no trade.
600 American Capital moved to NY.
500 Medicine=>Pots. Gold to Berlin (d,202) Hides no longer supplied.
475 Japanese - Hey, I thought restarts were off?? researching Seafaring. Barb leader captured, horse=>vet!!. peace, give rep , maps. exchange maps
450* Washington (size 5 )now barbarian.
425 Americans land near home. Demand 50g =>WAR. Seafaring=>Mas. Hides to Rome (d, 208)
400 Orange Ship offshore.
350*Masonry=>Const. Harbor
325 Barbs near Ciudad Grigor. Hut: NONE legion
250* Colossus. Hides to Veii (u, 118)
225 Hides to Rome (u, 128)
175Bank. Construction=>Math Hides to Rome (u, 128)
25 Math=>Univ. Hides to Kyoto (u, 138)
1AD WLTCD starts.
100 Delhi builds Pyr. Ciudad Grigor size 12
120* Americans: get HB, trade Maps
160 Romans 100g
180 English found. Silk to London (d, 429)
240 Wool to Berlin (d, 376)
280* ToG=>Wheel
380 English - demand 50g. no. War
400 Wheel =>Eng
440* Cope's. Dye to Boston (u, 372) Americans: IW, Embassy
460 Japanese develop Feudalism Eng=>San
560 San=>Bridges.
580 Sewer. Size 13 Silver to Berlin (d, 494r)
600 *WLTCD stops. Bridges=>Inv
640 size 14. WLTCD starts
680* Inv=>Demo.
700 Washington builds GL. Germans declare war. Evaluate. Shakes next, allowing massive growth (everything is irrigated. Bank may be necessary. Germans have Chem and Econ, but won't give it. Wish we could find the Indians

720 Shakes completed. Dye to Boston (u, 228)
740 Demo=>Nav
840* Size 21. Revolution
860 govemo. WLTC starts.
960 Steal Chem from Germans
980 Gunpowder=>Expl
1130 Explosives=>Metallurgy
1160 Metal=>Phys
1200 trade Americans for Physice
1240 Steam Eng->RR
1280 Dye to London (u, 204) Evalujate. RR next, then Refrig, then celebrate. Rush caravans for INC

1300 RR=>Ind
1380 Ind=>Consc
1540 Consc=>Refrig. It is not clear that I am going to win this game.
1560 Americans - Ind for Poly to get Corp next.
1570 Refr=>Corp
1600 Corp=>Steel
1620 Steel=> Ref
1650 Ref=>Elect
1670 Electr=> Comb
1700 Comb=> Auto
1730 Auto=>Mass P
1740 Superhiway Hides to NY (u, 630)
1750 Mass P =>Atom Theo
1752 Gems to Philadelpha (d, 1406r)
1754 Germans-trade for Leadership! Build Eiffel Tower because my rep sucks.
1760 fission=>Power
1764 Power=> Laser
1770 Laser=>Tactics
1772 Indians )ginally_ trade maps.
1774 Tactics- 1780 Mach Tools=>Feud
1782 Trade with Americans for Feudalism.
1786 Nin=>Computers
1790 Computers->Flight
1794 Research Lab
1796 Flight cancels Colossus
1800 Radio
1804 trade for Mono
1806 Adv Flight=>Rockets
1812 Rockets=>Space Flight
1818 Space Flight=>Plastics
1865 Launch arr 1901. Now to Stop the Americans

1901 Land AC. Achievements 140 Citizens 26 Spaceship 79 Peace +6 Barbs +25 Bonus 276
Montezuma the Cruel

[Old n Slow]

Hmmm,

I have some room to improve -- looks like I'm weak in a number of areas -- foremost the earliest game.

[Elephant]

Up late trying to get the youngest to stay in bed...



EDIT: Grigor's stats updated (with some interpolation...)

[Elephant]

Originally posted by duke o' york

No conquest after lunch!

Bad Pun Alert!

Now OCC conquest is another matter entirely.....

I've only seen one or two decent OCC conquest games; for one thing, Restarts would have to be Off. I've done some city reduction myself in OCC, but it is tedious killing the only defender and waiting till the flag goes up to kill it again.

[duke o' york]

No conquest after lunch!
I agree totally with this idea. Also no taking of cities whatsoever after lunch. Bribery's out too. It'd be easy to protect your city by buying another one close by and weathering the AI storm there, leaving your capital to see out the rest of the game peacefully. Once the launch has been made then you should be hurriedly buying up defenders to ensure you're still around to make that triumphant TV broadcast to your expectant citizens. :b

Now OCC conquest is another matter entirely.....

[Zenon]

Well, if even the RAR Philosophy is begging for peace in this case I better give in!

No conquest after launch, then (unless, of cause, these bloody Barbarians take my trading partner again to spoil my game )

Zenon

[Scouse Gits]

Ah elephant - to paraphrase Clint Eastwood, "Just because we agree on something doesn't mean I want to stick my tongue down your throat."

Even my unquenchable thirst for infidel blood knows that OCC is not the place to enjoy it

Stu

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by Elephant
I hate to buck the trend of these "blood-thirsty" OCC gamers, but I find myself agreeing with SG ... I think a valid OCC finish is the landing, not the launch. Otherwise we could be sending 15-1-1-1-1-1 ships off earlier and ignoring 30 in-between years...

I think Elephant "sticks the landing" with this comment.

Monk

[Elephant]

I hate to buck the trend of these "blood-thirsty" OCC gamers, but I find myself agreeing with SG (MAJOR suprise!) that the time between launch and landing is not meant to be a release from the One City restriction. Certainly a lot of AI "retribution" can be permitted (I personally like to see how well I can preserve the AI's attitudes while adequately protecting my city), but the addition of extra cities changes the danger level of that in-between time. I have had at least two memorable deaths to overwhelming AI attack (well, in all honesty my defenses were a little weak) during that period. I think a valid OCC finish is the landing, not the launch. Otherwise we could be sending 15-1-1-1-1-1 ships off earlier and ignoring 30 in-between years...

[solo]

It's fun to be back among the Civ 2 faithful. I found something lacking in RoN and the RTS genre. I will post a new thread shortly for another EL game, but hope that Zenon would follow that with one of his own starts. As for using edited maps, it was done more often than not in Paul's OCC games, so I can't see any objection to using one.

[Zenon]

It´s good to see you back playing civ 2, Solo! And I think it´s time to congratulate you to the earliest landing. TimTheEnchanter and Elephant had very good games, too.

Originally posted by solo
Interesting games, and each one so much different, but still with most player landings clustered around 1800.

Exactly! One more reason for Elephant to complete one of these nice charts.

It might also be suitable for another EL game, if players vote to give that kind of game another go.

please go ahead

Zenon

P.S: I think I could provide some interesting starts, too. BTW, is there any reason why not to take a start on a created map (other than the unwanted knowledge of the creator)?

[Zenon]

Originally posted by Straybow
Well, after launching we can kick buttocks… no?

1768 Superconductor, trade for Polytheism

Why trading (which adds one to your tech total) instead of giving it away to your key civ? Unless you had no other choice but Polytheism and trading got it out of the way?

I thought I could after launch. Thanks for the confirmation, Straybow! But I think I would have violated rules just to kick Barbarian Berlin. 3000 years of barbarism just had to come to an end in this once beautiful city.

About the tech exchange: Elephant allready gave the answer.

Zenon

[Scouse Gits]

1.2. RULES
You are allowed to settle one city. You are not allowed to settle more cities or to get cities through conquest or bribery. It is of course not allowed to access the cheat menu. It is also not allowed to reload a game to change anything that did not go as you wanted it to go. There is only one occasion where reloading is allowed which is explained in section 1.2.2 (advanced tribes).

where does it say - upto launch?