The Baltic Front HQ (Henrik)

[EZRhino]

This is grave news indeed, perhaps game threatening if we do not act quickly. How did this happen? Stukas? Is the any AAA near by? What units do we have in Luga and Novgorod? Rushbuy KV-1s and AAA in all nearby cities, also get as many Red Army units as possible to use as meat shields. Can we stall till winter when the Karl is useless? We may have to risk some airlifts, and if it comes to it, Leningrad is definately more important than Viipuri.

[Ben Kenobi]

Pray for the coming of winter, comrades.

Looks very bad for our Murmansk front, indeed, all of the North.

[EZRhino]

I hate to say it, but its gonna take alot of loading to get us out of this mess

[EZRhino]

We arent sunk just yet. With a little luck we should be able to kill the Karl with the partisan, the destroyer and the KV-1 from Viipuri. In the interrim, we should move all units save for a few token defending units, to the fortress directly south of Leningrad. We should give up the Kola peninsula, and adopt a more realistic defensive strategy. Also, I would advise attacking the stack of He-111 bombers with the I-16 in Kitela. Leningrad needs AAA more than it need KV-1s, dont let it sink back into disorder,we need its production running at top capacity!

[Colwyn]

Much harder hey comrades

Originally posted by EZRhino
its gonna take alot of loading to get us out of this mess
http://apolyton.net/upload/files/EZR...thenyoudie.bmp[/IMG]

Now that we cannot cheat and reload, funny how the game is much harder, I must say in most of my RF games I would reload a very bad turn.

When I commited myself not to cheat at all in anyway the game is a whole lot harder.

PS I was surprised to see Narva fall too, but yes 1/4 times it would when I ran the turn myself (I just couldn't believe it) the real need is AA's as once they are gone, stuka's can knock of 4-6 per turn each!

[Shaka Naldur]

there is a NKVD north of Novogord doing turism that can be moved

[yop73]

So Henrik, do you want me to send you the KV1 from Viipuri to Leningrad. I don't know if it will do much, because I think Leningrad is lost ...

[Henrik]

Send it to the square with the fortified possition on it, I'll take it from there.
All is not lost yet, I hope


I still cannot believe the city fell with so many units in it, this has never happened to me before.

[yop73]

You should download the game. It is really hopeless. Leningrad cannot be saved anymore I'm afraid. Those Karls are just way too strong.

[Henrik]

I just did download the save and was able to destroy the Karl (Though that did include using the T26 in Viipuri as well as the Kv1).
I attacked with the artillery in Luga first, followed by the Kv1 and the Destroyer, after that I used the partisan, the NKVD trooper, the wounded airplane in Novgorod and then the T26 in viipuri. Note that I attack with the strongest units first to avoid the karl gaining veteran status before any serious damage has been done (unless it has it from the start, in which case it doesnt do any good at all I suppose, still it's a good precautionary measure to take imho).
However even with the Karl destroyed I wonder, will we be able to hang on to the city itself?
Possibly I could pillage the road between narva and leningrad but that wont do any good against those Wermacht SGs

[EZRhino]

Attack the stack of SGs and He-111s next to Narva with the I-16 from Kitela, and try to get as many units, it doesnt matter which, into Leningrad. They will be useful if we intend to stall till winter. I suggest emptying Luga.

Edit: it may also be possible to borrow a PE-2 from the Northwestern front and use it in conjunction with a AAA to make a road block.

[Colwyn]

Is this allowed (reloading/testing?)

Originally posted by Henrik
I just did download the save and was able to destroy the Karl

Is this allowed, I know the Marshal plays the german turn and won't reload (just look what happened at Narva Oct and Minsk in Aug.

Is it considered cheating if the commanders test the turn before posting the save?

[conmcb25]

Re: Is this allowed (reloading/testing?)

Well guys this is an interesting question. I am not going to reload a turn based on a bad german movement combat result. (Bad for us). He11 at this point in the game I could reload every turn for the next 10 years and it wouldn't change!

I personnally consider reloading 20, 50, 100 times to get the right outcome cheating. It certainly takes longer but what is the real differrence between that and just changing the attack values in rules.txt if the result is the same? Thats my OPINION btw other PBEMers dont necessarily agree with me.

However trying something to see if it could possibly work before playing the turn doesn't seem to be "cheating". I at least think it is different than Henrik reloading say 50 times.

I would say it is almost necessary. The other front commanders probably need to know if it is even possible before they commit forces that will certainly weaken their fronts.

And any good General Staff is going to decide upon several courses of action and war game them before actually deciding upon the preffered course of action.

Thats what I see Henrik doing in this case. He can come back and tell us thats its possible what it will probably take and then we can make the decision.

Now if Henrik reloaded 50 times that would be cheating, but I know Henrik well enough to know he will not do that.

Thats my opinion anyway, what do others think?

(And yes I do have experience with military staff action planning and the 5 step planning process. Didn't know I would use this stuff in CIV II!)

Originally posted by Colwyn


Is this allowed, I know the Marshal plays the german turn and won't reload (just look what happened at Narva Oct and Minsk in Aug.

Is it considered cheating if the commanders test the turn before posting the save?

[Henrik]

I see your point Colwyn, I didnt think of it like that however. I was instructed to download the file to have a look, so I did and when doing so I tried to throw some stuff at the Karl to test it's strength (I've never had to fight a Karl at leningrad before).
Perhaps I shouldn't have done so, as I wasn't playing my turn yet. However I didn't consider this as reloading when doing it, as when I actually play my turn, I won't be reloading during the turn (I didnt during my test play either actually) but just playing the turn and saving, hoping for the same results.

[Colwyn]

What do you think you are going to do??

Can you retake Narva? ie destryoer remember we can airlift a KV1 into leningrad, maybe if we only wound the Karl it will be enough for it to fortify itself??

Whats you plan, i'm sure you will think of something, i'm guessing you won't abandon lenningrad!

Are you going to play your turn today?

I feel sorry for you as Narva was well defended (maybe needed a extra AA)