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**Hydey** · January 25, 2003, 18:59

How about deliver a freight or 2 to get even more money and leave the improvements alone.

**SCG** · January 25, 2003, 19:02

selling improvements is certainly a viable option - are there other cities that offer alternative selling options?

are alternative fundraising options available? such as delivery of caravans this turn (demanded or undemanded?) or maybe the possibility of capturing a city by force (certainly risky even if an option)

other than the granery, i'd probably want more detailed info on the current proposed sells (i assume capitol and valencia are either small or not likely to grow in the next few turns?), that cordoba isn't dependant on the harbor for its current food supply and vigo is sufficiently happy to get along without a colosseum (we did recently have a thread on growing unhappiness)

**Ben Kenobi** · January 25, 2003, 19:36

SCG-
Valencia currently has a food surplus of two, and will not grow for around 30 turns. Capitol is on food rationing, with -2 food per turn.

Cordoba does not lose a food without the harbour.
Vigo is fine without the colosseum, it is not large enough to warrant one. These are just some of the superfluous builds accumulated from capture or changes in circumstance.

Other ones will be the Aqueduct in Capitol, which makes sense if we are selling the sewer system.

I'm only doing this because I want to give our pres another option with the invading Mongols, depending on the military plan posted. To do this, we need the cash this turn.

Agreed, Hydey. We have lots of caravans being built, but I'm not in charge of making sure they get to where they are going. Perhaps our trade minister will want to comment here.

**SCG** · January 25, 2003, 19:57

Originally posted by obiwan18
I'm only doing this because I want to give our pres another option with the invading Mongols, depending on the military plan posted. To do this, we need the cash this turn.

I'm not saying its a bad idea - i do the same thing to finance emergency situations in my games

I just wanted to get a better idea of the overall picture with buildings. If the aquaduct in capitol is the only other proposed sell - we are running pretty lean on structures. I also look for barracks in cities not currently producing fighting units, redundant structures (captured cathedrals for example), or other cities with granaries, courthouses etc

**Ben Kenobi** · January 25, 2003, 20:38

No, we are pretty lean right now. The only barracks/granery/courthouse we have is in Naples, which I think we do need. I like Cavebear's suggestion to surrender Kazan, although it will give the Mongols a city and one of our techs.

We might be able to rebribe the city in a turn or so, reinforcing our troops with yet more Mongols units.
I don't envy the job of our military advisor.

**cavebear** · January 25, 2003, 20:55

We could do both. Looting Kazan to take the gold and the units out of the city is legitimate and examing our cities carefully to discover improvements that are not needed is also viable. I have to admit I had not thought to examine our cities for un-needed infrastructure.

to Obiwan

I also suggest that we designate some cities to build defensive units to be transported to the remote locations to keep the war at the fringes while we do the important things in our heartland.

Though I am not the Minister of War, I suggest we avoid the temptation to strip the nearest cities to Naples of defensive forces. That's just tempting a domino effect.

And we could improve the terrain of Naples from the current Grassland to Hills for a 100% defensive bonus. With City Walls and Hills, we ought to be able to hold Naples for many turns and keep the Mongols distracted.

**Six Thousand Year Old Man** · January 26, 2003, 01:20

I don't know what our normal cash flow is... but it seems imprudent to sell a lot of improvements to bribe one cavalry, leaving is still with no reserve for what the Mongols throw at us next time.

I suggested a defensive-offensive strategy in the other thread (the turn reports) which may or may not be feasible. If we bribe the Cavalry, it should be part of that larger strategy, IMO.

And deliver some 'vans...

Sell any and all Granaries, if we have more than one. Sell sewers/aqueducts in any cities with maxed growth... but you knew that of course

And turn up the tax rate if needed. We might as well raise some funds for a (defensive) war chest, rather than research sciences faster for the Mongols to steal

**rjmatsleepers** · January 26, 2003, 03:15

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
it seems imprudent to sell a lot of improvements to bribe one cavalry, leaving is still with no reserve for what the Mongols throw at us next time.

I think STYOM is quite right That's a lot of improvements simply to bribe one unit. IMHO we should only sell them if they're all really surplus to requirements. Even then, it mat be better to keep the money for other things.

RJM at Sleepers

**DrSpike** · January 26, 2003, 07:18

All those improvements for 1 cavalry!! You are clearly someone who wishes to waste the taxpayers hard earned cash.

**SCG** · January 26, 2003, 14:57

looking at the state of affairs in 1859, we were bringing in a net of 150 gold in taxes - how much on average do we get for our deliveries? And how much would be expected for deliveries locally? The turn report only lists one delivery for 204g. We definitely are spending quite a bit on the Mongols, so a change in overall policy does look to be in order. I am assuming we are in Republic rather than Democracy since the courthouse in Naples is deemed necessary.

Reguarding the mongols, if the war minister and the president feel we can gold onto our current holdings, by bribing a cavalry or 2, than perhaps a special one time war levy could be assessed. Past reports indicate we could gain an immediate boost to the treasury

Originally posted by cavebear in 1784
For informational purposes... 60-10-30 would give us 572 gold minus 42 maintenance costs per turn, 20 turns per tech, and our current Luxury benefits. I can understand the value of the taxes, it would be like 2 completed Caravans each turn

The results of that report sem to indicate we did raise the tax rate slightly. What is our current tax rate?

Presumably we have a better infrastructure now than we did then, so we should be able to quadruple our tax intake for a couple years, to provide a buffer again and then change our war strategy accordingly to solidify our position while we then concentrate on science for the space ship.

If we feel that we can't hold a city and wish to relinquish it, sell the city walls (if any - picture indicates we don't in Kazam), or sell the most expensive building, and move enough units into the city so that the last defender destroyed destroys the city, thereby not costing the loss of science.

If full retreat is chosen, we should deplete the treasury as much as possible at the end of the turn, and sell the most expensive structure before rehoming any Kazam units (assuming Kazam is the city to be surrendered). If we do that, perhaps raising the tax rate so we aren't so depleted next round, as well as don't risk giving away science that might be otherwise be immanently discovered.

Further information or debate would be useful

**Ben Kenobi** · January 26, 2003, 17:12

I am assuming we are in Republic rather than Democracy since the courthouse in Naples is deemed necessary.

SCG, we are in a Democracy. The only benefit accrued from courthouses is an extra happy person, which can help keep a city content. I'll have to check and see if we can get away with selling that courthouse in Naples.

All those improvements for 1 cavalry!! You are clearly someone who wishes to waste the taxpayers hard earned cash.

Dr. Spike, Calvary are expensive to bribe! It may save us a city.

Presumably we have a better infrastructure now than we did then, so we should be able to quadruple our tax intake for a couple years, to provide a buffer again and then change our war strategy accordingly to solidify our position while we then concentrate on science for the space ship.

Excellent suggestion, SCG!

A stitch in time...

**JCP** · January 27, 2003, 16:01

No hope for defending Kazan against that damned cavalry, by rushbuying a strong defender ?

(if we have 2 rifles and 1 alpine, it's a good defense, and if cavalry kills one, it will be weak and a rifleman may kill it !)

**DrSpike** · January 27, 2003, 16:05

If it has no walls then it's toast. Besides if we were going to rush anything it would be a counterattacker.

**JCP** · January 27, 2003, 16:25

Sorry, I didn't see the 1865 screenshot when I posted my reply. I thought the question was only about one cavalry !

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