Speer's handle

[Djugashvili]

Am I not considered Stalin?

[Mao]

Nah, there was another one whose name was "Stalin", not his real name like you

[Lazarus and the Gimp]

In one of those strange coincidences, Off-topic has just had another slough of highly dubious threads. No matter....

MarkG- the assumption that the people I mentioned only read off-topic was wrong. You have to accept that the sight of Speer's name on one forum may drag down the image of an entire site to an extent. Besides, I am a civer, and I am offended by it.

Mao- No. I've debated why Naziism is evil countless times, and I'm not doing so here. This thread is remaining very firmly focussed on the subject. Anyway, coming from you the question was purely rhetorical. I don't believe for one moment you actually need it spelled out to you.

As for your other points, I'm going to play the Apolyton rules. Freedom of speech, as we are frequently reminded, does not exist here due to the restrictions of the site owners. This is purely a question of what the admin consider acceptable. After all, usernames have been deleted before.

Secondly- as far as ignoring threads goes.....

I frequently use fairly ripe language here, and get away with it. However, if I use such language in a thread title I know it will probably be deleted and I would receive a ban. This is because the administrators and moderators accept that it's very difficult to ignore such things when they stare back at you from the menu before you even open the thread.

I think that it's hoped that this thread will quietly fizzle out and be forgotten, until the next time. I'm not going to let this go, however. Whichever way it goes, I want a decision from the administrators, and I will accept it whichever decision is made.

As far as I can see, there is no middle ground. Is Speer's username acceptable, or is it not?

[MarkG]

Freedom of speech, as we are frequently reminded, does not exist here due to the restrictions of the site owners.
Actually that is something we never say. What we do say is that freedom of speech(on our forums at leadt) does not mean freedom to insults, flames and hatred comments.

Anyway, since it seems like everyone is waiting for an answer from us...
We had made the decision long ago and we will keep it this time to. As I had said in the past, if we had known what the background is behind that login, and we had noticed it it's creation, it would have banned, asking him to choose another one. Still, this didnt happen. Banning the name NOW would be in contradiction of everything we have done so far. Leting this name for this person be NOW, is an expression of saying that everyone is accepted on Apolyton if he follows certain common sense rules. AS hasn't goten a "vacation" for a long time.

I will say it again. If you feel that he or someone else is posting insults, flames and hatred comments and we are leting him do that, please mail us. Be sure that we will take action.

PS. funny how you are "tolerating nazis" when you are if you not leting someone post whatever stupid idea is stuck in his mind, and you are "oppressing freedom of speech" when you're not...
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by MarkG (edited March 26, 2000).]</font>

[Mao]

well, it's over now, MarkG the god as spoken. And Lazarus, I've explained why I chose my handle, if you don't want to listen, tough!

[Lazarus and the Gimp]

I never had any objection against your username to start with Mao. In any event I was always perfectly happy with your explanation. I've no idea why you're so aggressive on this point.

MarkG- I appreciate the fact that you're in a no-win situation, but thanks for taking the time to respond. Case closed, to coin a phrase from our beloved moderator.

[Mao]

oh! oh! had to get in the last word...



Lazarus, let bygones be bygones, agreed?

[Lazarus and the Gimp]

Mwahhh!

Big snogs back at you, Tiger.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Edit - Oh, well, I didn't see all the second page threads, my browser stopped loading part way down. I guess I'll just have to jump AS everytime he posts pro-nazi garbage.


I also agree with Lazarus and sammyboy - the real Albert Speer was a convicted war criminal. The poster Albert Speer is an attention grubbing self-proclaimed fascist who has recently made posts denying well known aspects of the holocaust. He has also made numerous other pro-Nazi, or Nazi revisionist posts. His undeniable intent is to create a mental association with the war criminal Speer - it is not, like Mao, a coincidence, nor a less commonly known name like Djugashvili.

Would Feliks Dzherzhinski be OK for a commie inspired name?

Obviously, the poster Hitler was soon gone, but where on the scale from Hitler to whoever do you draw the line? How about if a group of neo-fascists show up here, and take as handles the names of the signatories of the Wannsee protocol? Eichmann or Göring might not cut it, but how about Reinhard Heydrich or Ernst Kaltenbrunner? Joseph Goebbels? Joachim von Ribbentrop?

It is NOT a free speech question - it's a question of what is acceptable on a private site. It will be interesting to see who pushes this limit next, since every other limit and rule gets pushed in off-topic.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by MichaeltheGreat (edited March 30, 2000).]</font>

[adaMada]

MichaeltheGreat is of corse, correct. I know people have stoped commonting on this thread, but, until I read his post, there didn't seem to be anything to comment on.

This is a re-pledge of my support in the battle agianst speer's handle.

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adaMada
adamada@springmail.com
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by adaMada (edited April 11, 2000).]</font>

[Mao]

MtG hit on an important subject, this is a private site. We really have no ruling here, Mark and Dan know, and it appears they will not act. MtG, you have to remember that if Mark and Dan were facists (no offense to you guys, just hypothetical), we could all get diabled. This is private, so if they wished, they could disable everyone but AS. I agree with MtG mostly though. Anyway, I only have Mao, not Mao Tse-Dong, there are other families named Mao in China, I know of one for sure at least.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Huzzah, that Speer may post! Huzzah for MarkG and DanQ !

I have a question for you that wish Speer couldn't use his name, would you also wish to ban Red Trotskyite (an old poster), from using that name as well?

[MarkG]

Mao, you forget easily
I made our final reply to the issue on March 26, 2000 06:58 and yours was the first post to reply to it

[adaMada]

MarkG:

I don't quite get your arguement. Sure, you can do whatever you want (its your site), but I still can't understand what you meen.

In my opinion, the real meat of the issue is:

Why is having a username called 'Albert Speer' any different from posting something saying "Albert Speer is the best". Would posting these words on the OT be allowed? Isn't this an insult to all of those who died in the holocost? Dosn't this username count as an insult? Where do you draw the line…

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adaMada
adamada@springmail.com
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by adaMada (edited April 12, 2000).]</font>

[adaMada]

Also:

If Mr. Speer is reading this; then would he please make a reply. By not replying (assuming that he knows this thread is here) isn't he saying "No, I have nothing to say because yes, my user name was meant to be pro-natzi?"



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adaMada
adamada@springmail.com