Speer's handle

[Huey]

From a post by MarkG in the Apolyton Forum:

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Originally posted by Monk on 03-20-2000 04:41 PM
If you won't mind a bit criticism Dan, I think you're -slightly- twisting some proportions here. On the Off-Topic you have allowed three thousand posts by a person calling himself "Albert Speer", and we've seen another poster blaming the "******s" for the world's problems on more than one occasion. If you really want to keep offensive things of the board, you ought to look at those instead


on the case of Speer, I dont recall the last time I got a mail from someone complaining about it. I also dont recall reading someone post on the forums complaining that we let Speer post...
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Since I know I'm not the only one who is offended by the use of the name of a Nazi war-criminal, I would ask all of you to mail MarkG and/or DanQ with a complaint about it. It's about time people know that using such a name is NOT funny...

[Jools]

oh gosh it's just a name. And besides, i think there are quite a few Speer's in Germany, not to mention Britney Speers (she changed her name to Spears, yes she's related to him)
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Jools (edited March 21, 2000).]</font>

[Ming]

Moved to Apolyton forum where it belongs

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Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

[Huey]

Somehow the eludes me...

But forget it, it's obvious that the powers that be just don't care... Let's just wait till someone drops by with a handle like Himmler, Eichmann, Mengele or what have you... After all, it's just a name...

[MarkG]

I'm sure everyone who is offended by the use of that name in a login will come and post here or even take the time to mail us, no?

[Gary]

Let them login with the handle "Himmler", "Eichmann", or "Mengele" if that is what turns them on. So long as they don't post outside the forum rules why should you, or anyone else, care ?

[KarstenWilli]

IMHO all this nazi BS is taking more and more (and too much) place in the OT forum. And, as a german, I feel quite upset that someone is using a handle like that. I know a lot of people who suffered under the nazis and who had ancestors that dies in concentration camps. A lot of people died because people like the real Albert Speer continued to make war.
If "Albert Speer" would post that stuff he posts under that name in Germany, he'd sure get some troubles (there's a law against "Volksverhetzung").

[Nimrod.]

It seems to infer that words that cause offence to Americans are censored ("hell") whereas those that cause offense to Europeans largely ("wanker", "Albert Speer", "shag") are fine.

Double standards perhaps?

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In a broad generalization, Americans are believers, Europeans are sceptics.
Roland

What would happen to killer who rapes his victim to death?
Stefu

[David Floyd]

You guys are hilarious - Albert Speer was no war criminal (actually, I don't really believe in the concept of a "war criminal" being tried by foreign nations, but I digress). He did everything he could, near the end of the war, to not follow Hitler's insane orders.

And before you pull up instances of him supposedly supporting stuff like killing Jews, and slave labor, well, he was no more a criminal in this regard than FDR (criminal b/c of murder - Pearl Harbor - and putting American citizens in concentration camps) and Stalin (murdering his own people). Or what about Mao-Tse Tung, or Chiang Kai-Shek? No one calls them war criminals. And what about Allied soldiers who shot German soldiers after they surrendered - are they criminals too?

But if someone logged on as "Stalin" or "FDR" or something like that, there would be no problem. This is an insane double standard.

You could log on as "Hitler" and I'd have to problem with it...

Oh, and Karsten, I think Germany is wrong about their laws prohibiting free speech, but I digress again

[Ming]

Well Nimrod... nobody has ever complained about shag, or wanker before. I can say that I haven't received one email or icq complaining about those terms. So double standard?... No... Typical Nimrod tring to find fault with America or Americans... Yes

[Nimrod.]

I'm glad that smiley was there Mr Ming

Well, it wasn't an insult to Americans at all...as you insinuated. It was saying that the minority (non-Americans) aren't being protected as they might.

And just because we're not vocal, doesn't mean we like everything that happens. Of that you are perfectly aware.

(And actually one of my thread titles of a topic recently bumped has the word "wanker" in it" )

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In a broad generalization, Americans are believers, Europeans are sceptics.
Roland

Vi hører pludselig ikke meget fra dig -er du gået i hashpsykose efter en enkelt? Jeg havde jo ellers tænkt mig at byde dig på en joint til sommer, men så vidt jeg husker ville du ikke møde op i Roskilde -hvad blev der af "Det er dejligt å være norsk i Danmark" og det der "sex, drugs and rock n'roll" som du plejede at stå for? Måske er du bare blevet gammel og konservativ
Monk

[Lazarus and the Gimp]

Well I find the name "Albert Speer" offensive. I've made that abundantly clear on many occasions.

I first visited Apolyton in June last year after it was recommended to me as an excellent forum (I later discovered this to be true). However, on my first visit I encountered a particularly revolting piece of white supremacist excremental drooling from "Joe"and any number of posts sporting the name "Albert Speer". I left the site in disgust and vowed never to return to a place that harboured Nazi sympathisers. I very nearly didn't.

In fact I returned a month or so later, lured back by a link on alpha.owo, and have been here ever since, reassured by MarkG's change of stance on such posts. What concerns me is how many others react as I initially did? There's around 5000 registered members on Apolyton, but where are they all? How many good people just pack up in disgust and leave?

In isolation, most of Speer's posts aren't that bad. Some of them are highly suspect- the majority aren't. However, they can't be viewed in isolation from the name of the slaving Nazi whoremonger that adorns them, and it makes for ugly reading. I'm not trying to get the kid banned. If he was allocated a new username (with a transferred postcount- I'm sure this can be done), I would certainly feel much happier, and I'm sure many others would agree.

For the record, and for the sake of balance, I think "Djugashvili" is a pretty crass name too. However I don't find it as offensive. If the extreme right of Apolyton would gain some sort of satisfaction in claiming a double-standard on my part, then I'm not going to spoil their fun. Frankly I've got far bigger concerns to deal with right now.

Yes- I'd love to see that name gone. It's crass and insensitive to people's feelings. Speer talks a lot about the benefits of peer pressure. How about testing whether this works and seeking to persuade him to drop this repulsive handle?

Surely it is within the powers of the administrators to transfer his postcount to a new handle, if this is important to him? I'm well aware that not everyone is prepared to drop a substantial postcount like I did, and I'd like to see as persuasive an argument as possible to be offered to Speer.

How about it? Is Speer ready to drop the Nazi tag?

[Ming]

Nimrod... How could I have missed your "bump"

I didn't edit it when I first saw it, or edit it now. Unless somebody complains (and I take it as a serious complaint) there is no need to edit it... The same goes with "shag". I am familiar with the term, but again, NOBODY has complained about it. Unless the owners tell me differently, those two words are OK for thread titles.

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Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

[Gozer]

Guys, anybody who feels the need to use Albert Speer as a handle is obviously doing it for the shock effect. It is really nothing more than a juvenile attempt to draw attention to himself. IIRC, wasn't he the guy who started the "What do you guys think of me?" thread. Pathetic.

My response to his unimmaginative and intentionally offensive title is to just ignore him, i.e. I don't respond to any thread he starts (mostly trolls about facism and such) nor do I comment on his responses in other threads.

Old 'Net Wisdom: Never Feed a Troll

[Narck]

Ok then, let me give my opinion on the matter...

Yes, I think the handle is offensive, and yes, it does bother me at times.

I like Lazarus' suggestion to persuade the guy to get a new username, while allowing him to retain his current post count (if he cares about it, that is)