Speer's handle

[adaMada]

I personally find the name offensive, and think it should be changed/banned/whatever. This is a gameing site, and while I don't mind a bit of fireing back and forth, things that can easily be found offinsive to anyone, shouldn't be used. I also remember reading that there was no rule agianst offinsive names. While this is true (as far as I'm aware), there is a rule regarding offinsive posts, so this should apply to that rule.

Also, Ming: I know sammyboy7 well, and on his behaf I can tell you that the 'boy' in his name has nothing to do with race. When he signed up, he thought that sammyboy7 sounded good.


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adaMada
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by adaMada (edited March 24, 2000).]</font>

[Ming]

It doesn't matter what sammyboy thought or what was behind it. I was just stating a fact that some black americans might find it offensive. And that was the point I was trying to make. There are many different types of people here. What might be offensive to some, isn't to others. If you look hard enough, many of the names could be considered offensive to some. So where do you draw the line. I don't have an answer to that question. I just do what I'm told by the owners

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Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

[MarkG]

I have yet to respond here, cause I was waiting to see if there is any consensous on the topic. having not read all the posts, is there one?

[Huey]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by MarkG on 03-24-2000 08:02 PM</font>
I have yet to respond here, cause I was waiting to see if there is any consensous on the topic. having not read all the posts, is there one?
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

No there isn't, but that was hardly to expect. But what I've seen here is, IMHO, a difference of opinions between Americans and Europeans (broad generalisation ). But I also have a feeling that a lot of people (including me) simply don't understand why there even should be a discussion about if a nazi handle should be allowed on Apolyton. Anyway, I hope you and Dan come up with an answer soon...

[Mao]

This is a gaming site, true, but when's the last time Albert Speer posted in an on-topic forum? He debates mostly in the OTF, if he does post in the on-topic, then you could be offended. The OTF has actually accepted him more or less...

[Lazarus and the Gimp]

I'd dispute the fact of Albert's acceptance. If you take a look at those unhappy at his choice of handle you'll see some familiar names.

To be brutal, the only reason I have never tried e-mailing the administrators about it is that, given the first impressions I formed of the policies of Apolyton, I thought I'd be wasting my time.

Don't misunderstand me here. Apolyton is a great site, the vast majority of the people found here are wonderful, and all the moderators and administrators are (in my experience) a fine bunch. However, Apolyton has something of a reputation of tolerating nazis. It's sad but true. The good points far outweigh the bad, but this particular bad point really sticks in my throat.

Do you accept nazis, do you attempt to reform them, do you ignore them and hope they go away, or do you throw bricks at them? I suppose we just have to decide which category we fall into.

[MarkG]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp on 03-25-2000 05:18 AM</font>
However, Apolyton has something of a reputation of tolerating nazis. It's sad but true.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>I dont know were you heard this, or how long you visit Apolyton. But I would lie to remind that Albert has been banned twice for posts of his. It seems to me that his posting habits have change since then, avoiding to post certain ideas of his, at least in the way he used to.


<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by MarkG (edited March 25, 2000).]</font>

[Lazarus and the Gimp]

I first heard it on SMAC at alpha.owo round about May 1999. Out of curiosity I visited shortly after, and on seeing posts by Speer, Joe, Michael Jeszenka and Evan all on the same day I thought the accusation was not entirely unjust.

It's improved vastly since then, but I'd feel a lot happier if these improvements went further. I have friends who have visited Apolyton's forums once only before leaving- unnerved at the sight of Speer's name coupled with pro-fascism sermons. It's good to see you clearly aren't happy with such actions, however. I can sympathise with you on that point.

[MarkG]

Back then we(the administrators) thought that tolerance(from our side) along with discussion(from the side of the rest of the posters) was actually going to make such people change their views, saving us from resorting to "vacations". Didnt exactly worked out. We then decide to put some limits. Everyone can have their ideals but this doesnt mean that you can spread it here trough hate posts.

As for your friends you mention: if they left our site cause they saw a few posts of Albert on the off-topic forum, then frankly these are not the kind of visitors we target to. our target visitors are civers, and it seems to me that there arent any civers who will ignore the 10 sections, the 7 hosted sites and the 30+ on-topic forums for a few posts in the OT

[Mao]

OK, if you don't like Speer, no one's forcing you to talk to him. Just ignore him, not like he ever posts anything on-topic these days anyway. And about tolerating Nazis...what's so bad about a Nazi? Are you only saying that for the simple fact that they are Nazis? That's not a good enough argument. If you wish to engage in a logical discussion about why Nazis are bad, I'm sure many would a oblige, but just saying "He's bad because he's a Nazi" is not a good enough reason. Why should we try to reform him? What right do we have to try to change someone else? What right do you have to try to change him, what has he done to you? Have you talked to him? Is the only reason you resent him because of his name?

It still doesn't make sense to me. If you don't like him, ignore him. He's not bothering you. And the internet is supposed to be free, not banning everything you find offensive.

DISCLAIMER: Mao is in no way condoning the acts of Nazis with this post.

[Legman]

[adaMada]

I've heard a lot of people saying that why ban/change Speer, when there is a username called Stalin. Real easy solution… ban/change both.

Just because I believe that Speer's handle has to go, dosen't meen that Stalin's can stay…

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adaMada

[Narck]

Stalin registered before Feb 1999 and has only posted 4 times in that time...

It may be safe to state that the guy is not coming back here anymore.

[Mao]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by adaMada on 03-25-2000 05:23 PM</font>
I've heard a lot of people saying that why ban/change Speer, when there is a username called Stalin. Real easy solution… ban/change both.

Just because I believe that Speer's handle has to go, dosen't meen that Stalin's can stay…


<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

...or leave both of them alone...

[sammyboy7]

again, i take lazarus' stand, ming. if anyone finds my name offensive, i will change it.