Turns of SMACDatAss

[smhfan86]

i think mongoose's proposal is agreeable.

also, i think for this one time only that whoever plays the turn first, fromage or kk, should use the right click feature of demand withdrawl to cause a state of vendetta, so that they do not gain any more energy from thier pact(which can only be downgraded to treaty in the trade screen).

they can then go to a truce. but after that, they would have to legally obtain a commlink before upgrading.

oh, and if fromage has stolen from or infiltrated anyone, then we must take that into account as well.

[Fromage]

First probe saw action in 2206, so that shouldn't be a problem.

[Claw919]

Okay, then.

We have Mongoose, SMHFAN, and (I vote) myself in agreement with Mongoose's proposal in its entirety. One more vote carries the day - and DD would then replay 2205 and we could proceed as noted (with, I suppose, the addition of the SMHFAN Vendetta addition to nullify commerce).

Anyone else have input? Fromage? KK? Sinman? DD?

I'm *VERY* pleased that we wouldn't have to rebegin from like 6 turns prior.

[Claw919]

P.S. Mong - I love your defence of your (and SMHFAN's) cowardly, cooridinated shang-hai of Fromage.

[Mongoose]

Coordinated!!? I charge in from the sea with my miniscule expeditionary force while my continental ally sits in base and builds crawlers! Some coordination!

It's just Fromage's bad luck to step in the path of a bullet meant for Ice Cube.

And how cowardly?

[Fromage]

Everything is fine with me.

BTW. Mongoose's attack was very brave assault from the sea. Those women and children in my colony pods should have stopped the landing of your highly trained missile marines.

Anyway, it is nice to be the losing part when playing with Hive, because that never happens in normal games

[DilithiumDad]

It's fine with me, although the penalty to the Spartans seems very harsh, especially with their industry penalty! Also, KK is a relative newbie. But anyway, I'll go along with it.

Guess I won't have a chance to undo any of my major screw-ups over the past 6 turns!

[KrysiasKrusader]

I am currently replying. It just takes me long to type...

[smhfan86]

harsh, dd?

considering the time lost, frustration, etc... it's probably not harsh enough, but i can live with it.

[smhfan86]

oh, if fromage has stolen a map or gained infiltration, that's foreknowledge that he and his allies shouldn't have. so we must take that into account too, because simply replaying from before doesn't erase that info from memory.

[KrysiasKrusader]

Please, keep in mind that: The following does not in any which way suggest that I am trying to absolve myself from the current situation...


But before I decide on a proposal, I usually like to consider all the facts first.

And then, I take a step back and try to look at things from - the outside

looking inwards.

It is a simple matter to make either assumptions and/or suppositions, basing a

decision on what we percieve (or would like to) instead of, going thruogh the

trouble of finding out what the actuall facts are first. This is just the way that I

approach things anyways.


Now please note: I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with the proposal yet,

perhaps after this, a new proposal will emerge...


Now, as to the amount of energy Sparta generated during the Hive - Sparta union:

2201: 3
2202: 8
2203: 8
2204: 8
2205: 9

For a total of 36 energy.

I havent veryfied the Hive (but I can go back and do so), but it should be in the order

of 18 - 24 energy (or there abouts).

The further we go back in time (if we were to replay), the less that amount will be,

of course.


Other things to consider:


- I (as well as evryone else now), is pretty well aware of what is in store for the Hive.

I (we) are now armed with this knowledge, and will surely adjust our strategies in order to

incorporate this new found knowledge.



- In 2201: Since the Brelievers and the Morganites were already aware of something that was

out of the ordinary (refer to Mongoose's post of: 13-08-2002 21:26). Why did they not contact

me or Fromage ? Or at least claw919 (the CMN) ? And ask for an explanation. Nothing against the rules

with: " Hey ! You and the Hive have commerce. How can that be without each others comm. links ?"

Then perhaps it would not have gotten this far.




- Sometime around 2200 - 2202 ( I have it in an e-mail ). The Gaian's had told me that they had

everybodies comm. freq. also (!). It never occured to me to verify this either. Although now that I have,

this was not the case. (hmm...)




- The Peace Keepers asked me for the Hive comm. freq. in 2203. At that time, it was not that I couldn't give it to

them (refer to DilithiumDad's post of: 14-08-2002 15:16), but more like I was holding out

till we had reached an agreement first! (lol) I was not yet aware that I couldn't pass it on.

The next year, 2204, when the Gaian's, Peace Keepers, and Spartans had reached an agreement and attempted to call an election,

we found out that we couldn't. I couldn't figure out for the life of me how come (shakes head) this was so. I thought it was a

bug in the game. So... the solution we come up with, was to pass all the comm. links amongst ourselves and the first one who

could call the election, would do so. Obviously this came about in the P.K. 2205 turn. (needless to say that there was a few e-mails

between us regarding this.)


So even though the Hive and Sparta union are the root cause of all this, I

would like everybody to consider what was just presented, before imposing a

resolution or voting on a proposal.

Let's keep it fair and think about what part we had ( or at least could have done about it ), also.

And one final note...

At the begining of the game, when the rules were established. We we're all

advised that we had a CMN ( claw919 ) that was there to settle something like

this. I don't remember any of us changing this.

Thank You.

[KrysiasKrusader]

Well, do I type slow or what !

[smhfan86]

Firstly, M and I simply thought it was a bug in the game, and that it would be resolved the the next turn year.

Secondly, I believe the sanctions should be greater than the calculated ecs, etc, because the perpetrators of the illegal actions now have foreknowledge of what is to take place.

Thirdly, it's caused a lot of frustration.

Also, as a rule of thumb, always tell the person you're contacting in game how, when, and where contact was made.

If someone's contacting you and doesn't say how, when or where, then ask and verify.

This could have all been avoided if that was followed.

[Mongoose]

KK - I made two errors. First, I presumed at first that it was merely a display bug in the faction profile. When that seemed not to be the case, I could not figure what was causing it. The second error was that I let it go because I didn't think the game effect would be great enough to warrant making an issue of it, particularly since I didn't know how it came to pass. Better, I thought, to avoid any of the acrimony that transpired in CGN 12.

The game effect proved to be immense. When that immensity was brought home to me, I began to howl.

I do not understand why the sanction proposed is considered harsh. Consider that the research effect alone of these years' of comerce might shave a year off of your development of D:AP and/or MMI. Would you prefer a sanction that required you to change research goals, subsequently losing 50% of your accumulated labs? THAT would be harsh.

Myself, methinks thou protesteth overly.

Are you seriously advocating that Claw919 serve as CMN to a game in which he is playing? Excuse me, but that is ridiculous. The CMN must be a neutral party, not a particpant with a vested interest in the outcome. I certainly would not wish to serve so in any of my games.
Claw's 'CMN' role was merely to organize and to start the game, not to moderate it after it was going.

We have two options. We can settle this ourselves, collectively, or we can seek an outside authority to do it for us. If my suggestions seem unreasonable to you, I reiterate my suggestion that MariOne set the sanctions, if he's willing to do so. If not him, perhaps Knowhow2, since he is holdiing the passwords for the game.

[smhfan86]

fromage, when u say your first probe saw action in 2206, you meant you actually used it in 2206, right? because you had one built in 2205, and would've had a second one built by 2206.