Sparta-Gaian Relations part II

[Kassiopeia]

I'm certainly not going with a proposal that'd force Googlie to resign!

[Googlie]

The analogy isn't quite the same.

If we owed them a tech down the road, and attacked, then no, I wouldn't send the tech. Much as I wouldn't have expected Morgan to pay us outstanding ec's if they had decided to declare vendetta as a result of our probe actions (the game suspends debt payments during Vendettas - our loan from Zak is still recorded, but with an asterisk)

But the proposal to sell EthCalc to the Gaians, in my view, would break a treaty trade between Treatied partners (Sparta and the Angels). It was negotiated in good faith, and we can't even claim that we didn't know that onward trading of that particular technology at this particular time was a key part of it - it was the deal-enabler, in fact. They told us that, but just were trusting enough not to put a clause in to deny us trying to trade it to the Gaians before they could execute their part of whatever leapfrog they were negotiating with the Gaians.

My view is that if we tried the double cross, then we can forget ever again dealing with the Angels (and I'm not sure that the Gaians would even deal with us anyway, for the sake of saving a few ec's or hoarding a tech from the A's. That'd probably sow such distrust among these 2 that they wouldn't consider it.

So, in a nutshell, I don't see any upside whatsoever, just downsides - the biggest being the loss of honour and credibility for the Spartan Officer negotiating and signing the Angels' deal

[Kassiopeia]

Now that I've learned all the particularities of the trade and the agreement we've had with the Angels, I find myself in agreement with Googlie.

[Maniac]

To Chaos Theory:

"Woops sorry for the late reply. As we don't have an embassy anymore, I forgot about this PM after reading it and posting it in my private forum.
Anyway to confirm your inquiry, we have indeed promised the Angels not to pursue Ascetiv Virtues.

Merry Christmas,

Maniac"

[Googlie]

Rather than open another new thread, I'll pose the question here, where it is somewhat apropos:

In about 3 turns the Pegasus will pick up R-112.

I believe that we'll then have a choice as to a future route, whether to run southeast to/along Gaian lands or southwest to/along Angels lands.

With a Longstrider on board, which do we want to infiltrate? gaians or Angels?

With an Impact Rover on board, do we want to pop any pods on either's landmass that we may opportunistically see on our travels?

(Would they consider that a causus bellus? Would they then try to mindcontrol R-112? - would they succeed in the trying?)

[Maniac]

I think going to Gaia would be best.

Some reasons:

I assume Gaia is less likely to have probe defences than the Data Angels.

As SCC Invincible has already explored the eastern Gaian coastline, we know there are lots of unity pods there ripe for the popping. (Perhaps they follow some policy not to pop any pod unless it's within a base radius?) We have no idea if there are any unity pods left on the Angel coastline.

If the Angels would think of infiltration as a casus belli, we could lose our deal for Intellectual Integrity. Gaia doesn't like us, so we have little to lose there.

Btw, IIRC we only signed a five-year peace treaty with the Angels and Gaians, so legally speaking we could enter their territory to pop pods without breaking any agreement.

Would they then try to mindcontrol R-112?

If we always use R-112's first MP to pop the pod, and use the second MP to move back into the SNC Pegasus, they'll never have a chance to mindcontrol.

[Snoddasmannen]

I also support going for infiltration of Gaia No way should we try it with the Angels.

And I'd love to see their reaction if we pop an earthquake on them

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
And I'd love to see their reaction if we pop an earthquake on them

Yeah, go take those pods from Gaia. Might be nothing, might be a lot. It's not like they can help it.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
And I'd love to see their reaction if we pop an earthquake on them

'Cept we'd lose the Pegasus

But Gaia it is then for Pippi 2

[Kassiopeia]

Any thoughts on the Gaians and the war? How large is the possibility of them joining in on the fray despite their war with Yang? Is their military in any shape?

[Snoddasmannen]

If we could just get reassurance that they and the Angels won't help the Morgans, that would be a great thing. I doubt they have the strength to help us attack though.

[Kassiopeia]

How would we go about assuring them though? I do think our tech broker post is important here - they have no contact as such with Morgan, so any attempts of co-ordination would be haphazard at best, whilst they can continue to have a beneficial trade companionship with us.

With the Gaian embassy down permanently, how should I contact the Gaians? Send Chaos a PM?

[Googlie]

Right. I offerred to restart an embassy, but got the message that they were happy as things were using PM's

With Morgan getting more of a naval force it's only a matter of time before they meet the Angels and the Gaians.

I've suggested elsewhere that we consider selling - maybe even gifting - for their neutrality - Ecol Eng to both. It'll be the only current tech that Morgan has that they don't and it'll remove a bargaining chip from Morgan's hands if we can pre-empt him.

Normally I'd go for a slew of cash, but given what the Angels have been saying about building their Network Nodes I don't think they'll have much to spare.

I don't klnow what the gaians priorities are, whether they have cash to spare (maybe sell to them and let them get something from the Angels for it)

But Ecol eng has to be attractive to them both as it'll give them a huge minerals boost - so maybe guaranteed neutrality plus a future tech from the Angels and guaranteed neutrality plus some cash - let's not get too greedy here - from the Gaians?

[Modo44]

Sounds good. But a tech from the Angels won't go. They already owe us IntInt, and I'd rather not make the deal even longer - just look at what Morgan did to a long deal. I think we need to go with some cash from both, perhaps not even right now - not from the Angels.

[Snoddasmannen]

I don't think we should bribe them on the approach. First let's try to find out their attitude. It's quite possible that they recognize Morgan as being the biggest threat, especially now that Sparta is tied up

If they weaken us, it will just improve things for the Morganites. The best thing for them to do is to aid the weaker part, since that prolongs the conflicts, which is in their interest. If one of us actually wins the war, that team will probably win the game, and they must realize this.

So the way to play this is probably to act weak ... Tell them that we don't have the infrastructure to mount a serious attack right now, "what can you do to help us?"

And then we should just show them that Morgan makes 130 ec:s per turn. I still can't get over that ...