Sparta-Gaian Relations part II

[Maniac]

As the previous thread has reached 500 posts, I started a new one.

Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
Mind you, who do we hold responsible if the Gaians actually do build the CDF now? It would have been nice to receive some official word from them as well.

Perhaps we could send Chaos Theory a PM like this?

"Hi Chaos Theory,

The Angels have told us you have agreed not to build the Citizen's Defence Force, as part of the deal to give them Ethical Calculus without any trade embargo towards you. Could you officially confirm this promise? We thought it would be better to hear it from the faction itself instead of a third party.

Also, while the Angels are free to trade Ethical Calculus to you, it is not forbidden for us to trade Ethical Calculus to you. We would therefore like to offer Ethical Calculus for sale to you, for a lower price than the Angels suggest. Are you interested in such a possible trade?

Greetings,

Someone"

Or do you think the Angels would be pissed off if we tried to compete with them in selling EthCalc?

[Snoddasmannen]

Re: Sparta-Gaian Relations part II

Originally posted by Maniac
Perhaps we could send Chaos Theory a PM like this?

"Hi Chaos Theory,

The Angels have told us you have agreed not to build the Citizen's Defence Force, as part of the deal to give them Ethical Calculus without any trade embargo towards you. Could you officially confirm this promise? We thought it would be better to hear it from the faction itself instead of a third party.

Also, while the Angels are free to trade Ethical Calculus to you, it is not forbidden for us to trade Ethical Calculus to you. We would therefore like to offer Ethical Calculus for sale to you, for a lower price than the Angels suggest. Are you interested in such a possible trade?

Greetings,

Someone"

Great idea!

Or do you think the Angels would be pissed off if we tried to compete with them in selling EthCalc?

"Ohhh the Angels are mad at me.. I'm so scared...oh the Angels! Uh-oh the Angels are coming to get me! Oh don't let the Angels come after me, they're so big and strong...Oh, protect me from the Angels! The Angels..."

http://www.earthstation1.com/TVWavFiles/germans.wav

[Modo44]

Re: Re: Sparta-Gaian Relations part II

Originally posted by Snoddasmannen

"Ohhh the Angels are mad at me.. I'm so scared...oh the Angels! Uh-oh the Angels are coming to get me! Oh don't let the Angels come after me, they're so big and strong...Oh, protect me from the Angels! The Angels..."

I have to agree with Snoddasmannen on that one.

[Googlie]

Re: Sparta-Gaian Relations part II

Originally posted by Maniac
"Hi Chaos Theory,

The Angels have told us you have agreed not to build the Citizen's Defence Force, as part of the deal to give them Ethical Calculus without any trade embargo towards you. Could you officially confirm this promise? We thought it would be better to hear it from the faction itself instead of a third party.

I'm OK with this - just prudent business planning

Also, while the Angels are free to trade Ethical Calculus to you, it is not forbidden for us to trade Ethical Calculus to you. We would therefore like to offer Ethical Calculus for sale to you, for a lower price than the Angels suggest. Are you interested in such a possible trade?

I'm very uncomfortable with this - it smacks of double crossing given that the Angels are doing our Int Int research for us on the undertaking that they'd be free to onward trade Ethical Calculus to the Gaians without restrictions

Or do you think the Angels would be pissed off if we tried to compete with them in selling EthCalc?

I'd say they'd be within their rights - if we did that - to say to us "Thanks for Soc Psych and Ethical Calculus - go do your own Int Int research - we owe you nothing as you broke the deal/understanding that we had

[Modo44]

Just read the answer from the Angels, concerning our recent deal. Since I was right about the Angels, and their honesty, we don't need to cross them anymore. We wouldn't want a war, or deterioration of our relationship. So, let's keep this straight, allowing them to do the trade, without spoiling it.

Not just yet.

[Maniac]

I'll abstain on the EthCalc proposal, so this means two to one in favour of only asking about the CDF. PM sent.

[Snoddasmannen]

Well I'm surprised we didn't go with the EthCalc proposal. I really didn't see anything either on the lines or between them about us not trading it with the Gaians as well. But yeah, it will probably help our relations with the Angels so I can certainly see the point.

However, I think we should point out this generosity to the Angels. Or they might think we just didn't think of the idea

[Modo44]

I know what you mean, Snoddasmannen, and it pains my heart to do so. But let's face it - the Angels are very far, and a war would be difficult. And even without a war, bad relations would hurt us more than them. For now, the simplest way to handle that is, to make them like us.

[Kassiopeia]

Pfft, had I gotten here in time I would have said: propose the EthCalc trade to them to undercut the Angels. Oh well, nothing has been lost yet.

[Maniac]

Well indeed nothing's lost yet. If there's a majority for proposing to sell EthCalc to the Gaians, Kassi could always send a second PM.

Edit: I just noticed I already received a PM back from Chaos Theory. Chance for Kassiopeia to take over if you want to.

His reply:

That is accurate. We hear you have likewise agreed not to build the Ascetic Virtues SP.

[Kassiopeia]

I'm a bit confused. Who has traded EthCalc to whom? Your opening post is a bit unclear to me,

"The Angels have told us you have agreed not to build the Citizen's Defence Force, as part of the deal to give them Ethical Calculus without any trade embargo towards you."

= "The Angels have told the Spartans that the Gaians have agreed not to build the CDF, as part of the deal to give the Gaians EthCalc without any trade embargo towards the Gaians."

Why would the Gaians have an embargo towards the Gaians? They can't trade themselves technology!

Then,

"Also, while the Angels are free to trade Ethical Calculus to Gaians, it is not forbidden for Spartans to trade Ethical Calculus to Gaians. Spartans would therefore like to offer Ethical Calculus for sale to Gaians, for a lower price than the Angels suggest. Are Gaians interested in such a possible trade?"

Okay, this I'm glarking.

So the Angels have proposed to offer EthCalc to the Gaians but we could undercut them. Is that it?

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
= "The Angels have told the Spartans that the Gaians have agreed not to build the CDF, as part of the deal to give the Angels EthCalc without any trade embargo towards the Gaians."

We have given Ethical Calculus to the Angels.

[Googlie]

Fellow Officers of the Junta:

The understood deal is:

Sparta >> Angels: Social Psych and Ethical Calculus, the latter being unencumbered by any trade embargo. The Angels have specifically told us that they wish this tech unencumbered as they are engaged in a tech-co-ordination with the Gaians.

Angels switch from Soc Psych (currently being researched by them) to Intellectual Integrity and send it to us. We agree not to build the Ascetic Virtues Special Project. The Angels and the Gaians agree not to build the Citizens Defense Force

Now i'm no lawyer, just an Engineer who ia also the head of CRYPTEIA, but I maintain that if we turn around now and offer Ethical Calculus to the Gaians that we are breaking our deal with the Angels - which has the implied - and understood by us - side deal that the Angels will trade Ethical Calculus to the Gaians for valuable considerations from the Gaians

I am vehemently opposed to such a double cross by Sparta - it smacks too much of a certain furore surrounding the trade of Doctrine: Initiative in a parallel universe (which co-incidently involved some of the same parties)

I would feel honour bound to resign from the Junta were this proposed offer to be made to the Gaians

Lt-Col Googlie

[Snoddasmannen]

Originally posted by Googlie
Fellow Officers of the Junta:

...

I would feel honour bound to resign from the Junta were this proposed offer to be made to the Gaians

Lt-Col Googlie

I may not understand your reasons, but I respect your position in the Junta to realize you are more important to us than the profit which might have been gained from the trade with the Gaians. I therefore reluctantly withdraw my vote.

I will recommend to the Junta however, that we dock the expected gain (oh say 50 ec) from your salary at the rate of 1 ec for the next 50 years

Now off to work I go, and then I start my 2 week holiday. Hopefully I'll still drop by here for an occasional stupid question or two.

[Maniac]

I'd like to second Snoddasmannen: While I don't fully understand why you're specifically opposed to this particular trade offer, and while I don't see any big similarities between the Doc:Ini theft and this matter, my attitude is one of "Hey, if you feel so strongly about it, let's do it as you prefer. "

To better understand your position for future reference though, could I ask your thoughts on the following hypothetical scenario?

1) If we had made a research deal with the Angels where they gave us a tech and in return we would give them Mind/Machine Interface after we had researched it a few years down the road,
2) If we are planning to attack the Angels a few turns after having researched MMI and built sufficient choppers and drop troops,
3) If this war will be the final showdown between us and any remaining opposition, the battle to decide who will the game, and we therefore don't expect to do any trading with other factions anymore during the remainder of the game,

would you:
a) break our agreement with the Angels, not give them MMI, and attack them as planned, with increased chances for victory.
b) keep our agreement with the Angels, give them MMI and THEN declare war on them, having fulfilled all our obligations.