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Sparta-Gaian Relations part II

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  • From the Gaians (quotes are from my pm to them, normal text is Gaian response, italicized is my commentary):

    he Federation staunchly refuses to acknowledge any retroactive claims to sea territory. By default factional sea borders are limited to the coastline unless a coastal or sea base is in question. The green little lines on everyone's maps are considered to be this borderline.

    Therefore any sea territory outside your coast has been considered, most likely by all factions so far, to be neutral territory. The Federation refuses to acknowledge transport through neutral waters as a hostile violation of territory.

    We are happy to considering the acknowledgement of a territorial claim you are willing to make, the same way we have claimed sovereignity over our coastal waters (the Modo Doctrine) - however these claims can not, by common sense and logic, be in power retroactively.
    Your action has been perceived as intelligence run to secretly obtain tactical data on our coast and it cannot be explained any other way. However, if Sparta gives navigational logs of the foil it will show that Sparta has been acting foolishly in attempt to prepare for the inevitable showdown when factions will be forced to conflict eachother, and not because of immediate plans to attack Gaia. This may silence voices in High Council which have been insulted since Sparta asked for tactical pact while secretly obtaining data on Gaian coast, not mentioning threat in your message. There's really no good way to respond to this one is there? Either we've been planning to attack them now or to attack them later. I'd opt for "we are already involved in a war, how likely do *you* think it is we'll take on another enemy at the same time? Hmm?

    As I stated, we have made no hostile act against you and will do our best to avoid doing so in the future, as well, since we harbour no hostile intent against you. Again, we'll be happy to oblige to reasonable sea territory claims you are willing to make.
    Mapping Gaian coast in secret is a hostile act. High Council have requested unfalsified navigational logs from your navy regarding our coast to disuade fears about Sparta. Does avoiding to answer it mean refusal? What is there in these logs that we can't reveal to them? Additionally, is there a way we could falsify them without getting caught?

    Spartan exploratory vessels haven't had, haven't, nor will they ever have intelligence operatives onboard. The only possibility would be a shot shell going astray and hitting your venerable Lady, but our exploratory vessels have yet to fire a shot to this date (which may change with the Morganites commandeering one of them, though).
    Your previous and current actions, with added oportunity, have been reason to target you as prime suspect. Be lucky that motive and opportunity does not mean you are guilty. Gee, thanks.

    Please, do not make the Junta suspect the possibility that this is a trumped-up charge spinned out of nowhere to facilitate a souring of relations that is a part of some greater scheme against us.
    Relations are not soured by words but by actions. Please understand that asking for tactical pact while secretly mapping Gaian coast deeply insulted High Coucil. Your threat did not help much either. If you show you changed your attitude High Council will be happy to cooperate with you as it does easily with Angels. However High Council is now seriously convinced that Junta is preparing for inevitable invasion of Gaian Union. Due to your past actions and as such, you'll need to prove yourself to be trusted. Our past actions? Could someone recap to me, what it is we've done to them? All I remember is a little disagreement over whether or not a deal had been agreed upon yet.

    Now, unless this new turn in attitudes in the Gaian Union has affected our earlier tech agreement, I would like to relay to you a few questions and statements from our experts wrt. the tech arrangement agreed upon earlier.
    What new turn in attitudes do you speak of? Gaian attitude towards Sparta has not changed a single bit for past 15 years. Of course Gaians will be disturbed because of already mentioned reasons. Well I don't know, trumping up charges of territorial transgression and accusing us of past actions that never happened in the first place?

    However keep in mind, Gaian Union does operate with profit in mind. Gaians will always accept a deal if it is good for them, regardless of relations with target faction. This is why your past offer has been accepted. Gaian Union does not break agreed deals unless the other side breaks it, so you have nothing to worry about. That's good to hear. We'll see.

    First off, since we are at war with the Hiverian horde, we desire IntInt ASAP because we need it to establish a safe defensive perimeter. This perimeter is required because we see our position as that of a 'lightning rod', which is attracting the wrath of the tempest that is engulfing Chiron this present moment.

    When, then, will you have Intellectual Integrity at the current rate of research you are using? When are you going to research EcolEng yourselves (we need this information for our own logistical setup of the deal).
    Your comment about Sparta being lightning rod for Hive inadvetently laughed most of Gaians. Gaia is lightning rod, and sadly Gaians would be quite happy to change that position as production of an army forced redirection of resources from population expansion. If Hive does really move away his stacks of units towards your front Gaians will be happy to see them smashing against Spartan perimeters. Laugh at us if you may, but once we start bonking Morganite heads you'll realize how we've managed to keep them in the game all along.

    Lab/energy output is changing every turn (each turn makes either emphasis on credits or labs), however it will be within 1-4 years. On the other hand, Gaian Union needs EE next turn, for the possibility that breakthough occurs next turn. You will receive II preaccepted as soon as research is finished. Nothing to say here, the tech experts, Maniac, Googlie, this is hopefully what you wanted to know.

    Also, can we agree to a clause that allows a party to use a friendly probe action to extract an agreed-upon tech in case sun spots obstruct normal diplomatic channels?
    Sadly, I need to inform you that no faction is allowed to probe Gaian Union in any case under any circumstances. This includes Spartan Federation. Additionaly, do not move probe foils/cruisers near our coast as High Council has passed a law that would give a directive to destroy any trespassing probe team, regardless of its motives and faction of origin. It is shoot first, ask questions later policy when it comes to probe teams and security, and diplomatic relations do not affect this. Yada yada yada. You already said you don't trust us, why not just say it again.

    Which brings in mind my final question - would you like to re-establish more formal diplomatic communications in the form of an embassy, or do you wish to stick to our current system?
    There already was an embassy and Junta destroyed it. Heh, touché. If it suits you, fine by me.
    Cake and grief counseling will be available at the conclusion of the test. Thank you for helping us help you help us all!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Kassiopeia
      There's really no good way to respond to this one is there? Either we've been planning to attack them now or to attack them later.
      Not necessarily. How about a response sounding a bit like this:

      We of course won’t deny we are after victory, but this doesn’t necessarily mean there should be an inevitable showdown between all factions. Sparta is currently pondering the possibility of adopting a “junior partner”. I’ll elaborate this concept. The rules specifically forbid a cooperative victory between equal partners. However I guess there’s nothing wrong with a game where one faction is clearly recognized as the winner, while there’s another faction left in the end that is recognized as finishing in second place. Probably you realize the Gaian Union has little chance to win this game. So ask yourself: what would be the most fun way of ending the game? Seeing your bases being burned by invading forces, powerless to do anything against it? Or ending the game in cooperation with another faction towards a common goal (eg capturing the headquarters of our mutual enemy the Hive), even if you aren’t the real winner? You were there too in the last weeks of the Cybenetic Consciousness. You already know the answer.

      I’m kinda thinking, after burning Morgan Industries, having a junior partner could be the only possibility to keep a 3-to-1 forming against us. I doubt the Gaians would agree to something like this though. Perhaps the Angels?

      Originally posted by the Gaians
      Your action has been perceived as intelligence run to secretly obtain tactical data
      Mapping Gaian coast in secret is a hostile act
      Please understand that asking for tactical pact while secretly mapping Gaian coast deeply insulted High Coucil.
      They keep saying how we’ve “secretly” mapped their coast. Perhaps we should tell them after all that we didn’t mind being noticed, as we saw those seas as neutral territory? “Else why would we have ended our ship right next to your coast every turn for everyone to see?”

      Your comment about Sparta being lightning rod for Hive inadvetently laughed most of Gaians. Gaia is lightning rod, and sadly Gaians would be quite happy to change that position as production of an army forced redirection of resources from population expansion. If Hive does really move away his stacks of units towards your front Gaians will be happy to see them smashing against Spartan perimeters.
      Actually that megastack the Pegasus noticed changed directions right after Yang declared war on us. If it wasn’t for us, their complete three-worm-army would be toast by now. They should thank us.

      Lab/energy output is changing every turn (each turn makes either emphasis on credits or labs), however it will be within 1-4 years. On the other hand, Gaian Union needs EE next turn, for the possibility that breakthough occurs next turn. You will receive II preaccepted as soon as research is finished.
      So they’re probably constantly shifting between high economy and high labs, made possible by their high Efficiency SE rating. I don’t follow their argument though that they should immediately get EcoEng “for the possibility that breakthough occurs next turn”. Surely they should know whether or not they’re going to switch to high labs production or not.

      Additionaly, do not move probe foils/cruisers near our coast as High Council has passed a law that would give a directive to destroy any trespassing probe team, regardless of its motives and faction of origin.
      What fleet are they going to use for that?
      Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
      Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

      Comment


      • It looks like the Gaians just want some cheap exploration data. They're trying to bully us in to giving away intelligence? Come on. ..
        I like Maniacs reply:
        Probably you realize the Gaian Union has little chance to win this game. So ask yourself: what would be the most fun way of ending the game?
        What a brutal chop right at the Gaians Let them know how lowly we regard them and they'll at least give up their attempts to extort us. We could basically reply with something very blunt like that, and not even reply to their other accusations, or we could just continue to argue the points the way you guys excellently suggest above. The latter is far more polite

        Comment


        • Remember one thing. We are in the stronger position here, not the Gaians. I'm answering separate from Maniac here.

          Originally posted by Kassiopeia
          [...] However, if Sparta gives navigational logs of the foil it will show that Sparta has been acting foolishly in attempt to prepare for the inevitable showdown when factions will be forced to conflict eachother, and not because of immediate plans to attack Gaia. This may silence voices in High Council which have been insulted since Sparta asked for tactical pact while secretly obtaining data on Gaian coast, not mentioning threat in your message.[...]
          We don't need to give them anything to show our (currently ) peaceful attitude. If we had planned to attack, they would be toast by now. They aren't, because we didn't. I'd tell them exactly that. Straight to their face, as a Spartan does.

          Originally posted by Kassiopeia
          Mapping Gaian coast in secret is a hostile act. High Council have requested unfalsified navigational logs from your navy regarding our coast to disuade fears about Sparta. Does avoiding to answer it mean refusal? What is there in these logs that we can't reveal to them? Additionally, is there a way we could falsify them without getting caught?
          Wrong. It wasn't in secret - they knew of the ship. And we don't give navigational logs to anyone, not for any reason. They are all classified. Period.

          Originally posted by Kassiopeia
          Your previous and current actions, with added oportunity, have been reason to target you as prime suspect. Be lucky that motive and opportunity does not mean you are guilty. Gee, thanks.
          Blah blah blah. If you want war, bring it on. Otherwise, shut up.

          Originally posted by Kassiopeia
          Relations are not soured by words but by actions. Please understand that asking for tactical pact while secretly mapping Gaian coast deeply insulted High Coucil. Your threat did not help much either. If you show you changed your attitude High Council will be happy to cooperate with you as it does easily with Angels. However High Council is now seriously convinced that Junta is preparing for inevitable invasion of Gaian Union. Due to your past actions and as such, you'll need to prove yourself to be trusted. Our past actions? Could someone recap to me, what it is we've done to them? All I remember is a little disagreement over whether or not a deal had been agreed upon yet.
          Are we in a Treaty with Gaia? If not, perhaps that would be the action they desire. A honourable one, because not so one-sided as demanding navigation logs. Meaning, the Junta could actually accept it.

          Originally posted by Kassiopeia
          What new turn in attitudes do you speak of? Gaian attitude towards Sparta has not changed a single bit for past 15 years. Of course Gaians will be disturbed because of already mentioned reasons. Well I don't know, trumping up charges of territorial transgression and accusing us of past actions that never happened in the first place?
          Talking peacefully about a tech trade, and then accusing of hostile actions. This is very much a turning of attitude to me. Almost like they play dumb here.

          Originally posted by Kassiopeia
          However keep in mind, Gaian Union does operate with profit in mind. Gaians will always accept a deal if it is good for them, regardless of relations with target faction. This is why your past offer has been accepted. Gaian Union does not break agreed deals unless the other side breaks it, so you have nothing to worry about. That's good to hear. We'll see.
          Aha, no honour. Good to know. No, don't tell them that.

          Tell them we accept their reasons, however, they should accept ours as well. After all, we know we have different agendas, and nothing can change this. BUT, we want peace and cooperation for now, and for the future.

          Originally posted by Kassiopeia
          Your comment about Sparta being lightning rod for Hive inadvetently laughed most of Gaians. Gaia is lightning rod, and sadly Gaians would be quite happy to change that position as production of an army forced redirection of resources from population expansion. If Hive does really move away his stacks of units towards your front Gaians will be happy to see them smashing against Spartan perimeters. Laugh at us if you may, but once we start bonking Morganite heads you'll realize how we've managed to keep them in the game all along.
          *nods* Exactly as commented.

          Originally posted by Kassiopeia
          Lab/energy output is changing every turn (each turn makes either emphasis on credits or labs), however it will be within 1-4 years. On the other hand, Gaian Union needs EE next turn, for the possibility that breakthough occurs next turn. You will receive II preaccepted as soon as research is finished. Nothing to say here, the tech experts, Maniac, Googlie, this is hopefully what you wanted to know.
          Good to hear this.

          Originally posted by Kassiopeia
          Sadly, I need to inform you that no faction is allowed to probe Gaian Union in any case under any circumstances. This includes Spartan Federation. Additionaly, do not move probe foils/cruisers near our coast as High Council has passed a law that would give a directive to destroy any trespassing probe team, regardless of its motives and faction of origin. It is shoot first, ask questions later policy when it comes to probe teams and security, and diplomatic relations do not affect this. Yada yada yada. You already said you don't trust us, why not just say it again.
          Pure paranoia. Nothing new, I agree.

          Originally posted by Kassiopeia
          There already was an embassy and Junta destroyed it. Heh, touché. If it suits you, fine by me.
          Blah, they must know it was too tedious to keep posting bumps when nothing happened. They didn't, Googlie did, right? yada yada yada.
          Seriously. Kung freaking fu.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Modo44
            Aha, no honour. Good to know.


            Btw, though I don't like the sound either of giving navigational logs, if we wanted to, we could perhaps promise to give them after they gave us IntInt? Presuming we want to continue the EcoEng<->IntInt deal of course.(?)

            Another point. The Gaians seem to think we have threatened them. Perhaps they have misunderstood this:
            Spartan exploratory vessels haven't had, haven't, nor will they ever have intelligence operatives onboard. The only possibility would be a shot shell going astray and hitting your venerable Lady, but our exploratory vessels have yet to fire a shot to this date (which may change with the Morganites commandeering one of them, though).
            Perhaps they didn't get we were referring to the Hunter being mindcontrolled by the Morganites?
            Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
            Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

            Comment


            • If we can propose a Treaty, we should. Also, we can state clearly, that we have no aggressive intentions against the Gaians at this moment (to counter their paranoia). That, I hope, would calm them down enough.

              The navigation logs I find too valuable to give away, especially since the deal for IntInt didn't include any additional payments. Might be they're just trying to pull more out of us, but why would we give more? I mean, they ARE getting technology already, aren't they? Their attitude here seems almost more greedy that the Morganic one.

              Of corse we want to continue the deal. We proposed it, remember?
              Last edited by Modo44; February 7, 2005, 06:51.
              Seriously. Kung freaking fu.

              Comment


              • Hmm, looks like the consensus is to play some hardball with them? :naughty.
                Cake and grief counseling will be available at the conclusion of the test. Thank you for helping us help you help us all!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Modo44
                  If we can propose a Treaty, we should.
                  We are already Treatied with the Gaians:
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • Ok, so while in a Treaty, they are becoming aggressive? Maybe we should show our paranoia then, and ask them if they are planning to jump on us, like Morgan did?
                    Seriously. Kung freaking fu.

                    Comment


                    • Message for the Gaians:

                      I have been instructed to contact you in diplomatic affairs, Lord Chaos Theory, so here goes.

                      Your action has been perceived as intelligence run to secretly obtain tactical data on our coast and it cannot be explained any other way. However, if Sparta gives navigational logs of the foil it will show that Sparta has been acting foolishly in attempt to prepare for the inevitable showdown when factions will be forced to conflict eachother, and not because of immediate plans to attack Gaia. This may silence voices in High Council which have been insulted since Sparta asked for tactical pact while secretly obtaining data on Gaian coast, not mentioning threat in your message.
                      Had we planned to attack you, we would have done so already. Currently we are involved in a vendetta with the Hive and the Morganites - how willing to go into a war with three fronts do you think we are? While we our researchers may not be the brightest on planet, our strategists are.

                      We of course won’t deny we are after victory, but this doesn’t necessarily mean there should be an inevitable showdown between all factions. Sparta is currently pondering the possibility of adopting a “junior partner”. I'll elaborate on this concept. The rules specifically forbid a cooperative victory between equal partners. However, it is my interpretation that there is nothing wrong with a game where one faction is clearly recognized as the winner, while there’s another faction left in the end that is recognized as finishing in second place.

                      (Somewhat OOC) Probably you yourselves realize the Gaian faction has little chance to actually win this game. So ask yourselves: what would be the most fun way of ending the game? Seeing your bases being burned by invading forces, powerless to do anything against it? Or ending the game in cooperation with another faction towards a common goal (e.g. capturing the headquarters of our mutual enemy the Hive), even if you aren't the "real" winner? Some of you were there too in the last weeks of the Cybenetic Consciousness. You already know the answer. (End OOC)

                      This of course is a long shot, and we acknowledge and understand if you won't entertain even the very notion of it. We just felt like airing the possibility.

                      apping Gaian coast in secret is a hostile act. High Council have requested unfalsified navigational logs from your navy regarding our coast to disuade fears about Sparta. Does avoiding to answer it mean refusal?
                      Had we actually planned to map your coast in secrecy, rest assured, you would have never found out. As we considered that area of the Planet neutral waters, we made no effort to conceal our presence there. Why else would we have ended the turn with our ship right next to your coast every turn, where everyone could see it? And why do you bring this up only now at a later date? Hence our suspicions of your motives for bringing this up.

                      We contest any claims of territorial transgression, hostility or secrecy, and the Federation never discloses navigational logs with other factions without a very good reason. You have provided none.

                      What new turn in attitudes do you speak of? Gaian attitude towards Sparta has not changed a single bit for past 15 years. Of course Gaians will be disturbed because of already mentioned reasons.
                      The first moment we are engaged in promising talks about a tech trade, and the next we are accused of intruding on your territory for no good reason at all. I do not know about the Gaian way, but the Spartan way says that this is a rather radical change in attitude.

                      Your comment about Sparta being lightning rod for Hive inadvetently laughed most of Gaians. Gaia is lightning rod, and sadly Gaians would be quite happy to change that position as production of an army forced redirection of resources from population expansion. If Hive does really move away his stacks of units towards your front Gaians will be happy to see them smashing against Spartan perimeters.
                      Actually that large stack the Pegasus noticed changed directions right after Yang declared war on us. If it wasn’t for us, your entire force of three worm boils would be husks and planet pearls by now. You're welcome.

                      Lab/energy output is changing every turn (each turn makes either emphasis on credits or labs), however it will be within 1-4 years. On the other hand, Gaian Union needs EE next turn, for the possibility that breakthough occurs next turn. You will receive II preaccepted as soon as research is finished.
                      "For the possibility that breakthough occurs next turn"? Surely you should know whether or not you're going to switch to high labs production or not?

                      Additionaly, do not move probe foils/cruisers near our coast as High Council has passed a law that would give a directive to destroy any trespassing probe team, regardless of its motives and faction of origin.
                      And I wish the best of luck to your enormous fleet in carrying out that tall order.

                      I feel that I must clarify something I've noted to the Gaian Union before, something I may have misworded to create a meaning that was not there. When I said The only possibility would be a shot shell going astray and hitting your venerable Lady, but our exploratory vessels have yet to fire a shot to this date (which may change with the Morganites commandeering one of them, though)., I meant that the Hunter under Morganite command may become the first exploratory vessel of Spartan origin to fire a shot. It was not intended as a threat of any sort, more as a side remark vis-a-vis Morganite crimes.
                      Cake and grief counseling will be available at the conclusion of the test. Thank you for helping us help you help us all!

                      Comment


                      • Do we need the ooc stuff? I'm sure thay are aware of their (in)abilities without it.
                        Seriously. Kung freaking fu.

                        Comment


                        • While not giving them what they demand, we shouldn't appear too confident for a while. otherwise, they could transmit that feeling to the Morganites via diplomatic channels.
                          Better let them think that we have already too much on our plate and are under heavy Hive attack: thus, they'll perhaps tell that to the Corporation, stopping dead any fear that we'll attack further (and assuring surprise for the PTS raid).
                          From hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee. Ye damned whale!

                          Comment


                          • How about this then?

                            I have been instructed to contact you in diplomatic affairs, Lord Chaos Theory, so here goes.

                            Your action has been perceived as intelligence run to secretly obtain tactical data on our coast and it cannot be explained any other way. However, if Sparta gives navigational logs of the foil it will show that Sparta has been acting foolishly in attempt to prepare for the inevitable showdown when factions will be forced to conflict eachother, and not because of immediate plans to attack Gaia. This may silence voices in High Council which have been insulted since Sparta asked for tactical pact while secretly obtaining data on Gaian coast, not mentioning threat in your message.
                            Had we planned to attack you, we would have done so already. Currently we are involved in a vendetta with the Hive and the Morganites - how willing to go into a war with three fronts do you think we are? While we our researchers may not be the brightest on Planet, our strategists are. Our forces will be busy with these current conflicts that have been thrust upon us for a long time, rest assured.

                            Mapping Gaian coast in secret is a hostile act. High Council have requested unfalsified navigational logs from your navy regarding our coast to disuade fears about Sparta. Does avoiding to answer it mean refusal?
                            Had we actually planned to map your coast in secrecy, you would have never found out. As we considered that area of the Planet neutral waters, we made no effort to conceal our presence there. Why else would we have ended the turn with our ship right next to your coast every turn, where everyone could see it? And why do you bring this up only now at a later date? Hence our suspicions of your motives for bringing this up.

                            We contest any claims of territorial transgression, hostility or secrecy, and the Federation never discloses navigational logs with other factions without a very good reason. You have provided none.

                            What new turn in attitudes do you speak of? Gaian attitude towards Sparta has not changed a single bit for past 15 years. Of course Gaians will be disturbed because of already mentioned reasons.
                            The first moment we are engaged in promising talks about a tech trade, and the next we are accused of intruding on your territory for no good reason at all. I do not know about the Gaian way, but the Spartan way says that this is a rather radical change in attitude.

                            Your comment about Sparta being lightning rod for Hive inadvetently laughed most of Gaians. Gaia is lightning rod, and sadly Gaians would be quite happy to change that position as production of an army forced redirection of resources from population expansion. If Hive does really move away his stacks of units towards your front Gaians will be happy to see them smashing against Spartan perimeters.
                            Actually that large stack the Pegasus noticed changed directions right after Yang declared war on us. If it wasn’t for us, your entire force of three worm boils would be husks and planet pearls by now. We will have to take care of that stack and many others from now on. Why, you're welcome.

                            Lab/energy output is changing every turn (each turn makes either emphasis on credits or labs), however it will be within 1-4 years. On the other hand, Gaian Union needs EE next turn, for the possibility that breakthough occurs next turn. You will receive II preaccepted as soon as research is finished.
                            "For the possibility that breakthough occurs next turn"? Surely you should know whether or not you're going to switch to high labs production or not?

                            Additionaly, do not move probe foils/cruisers near our coast as High Council has passed a law that would give a directive to destroy any trespassing probe team, regardless of its motives and faction of origin.
                            And I wish the best of luck to your enormous fleet in carrying out that tall order.

                            I feel that I must clarify something I've noted to the Gaian Union before, something I may have misworded to create a meaning that was not there. When I said The only possibility would be a shot shell going astray and hitting your venerable Lady, but our exploratory vessels have yet to fire a shot to this date (which may change with the Morganites commandeering one of them, though)., I meant that the Hunter under Morganite command may become the first exploratory vessel of Spartan origin to fire a shot. It was not intended as a threat of any sort, more as a side remark vis-a-vis Morganite crimes.
                            Cake and grief counseling will be available at the conclusion of the test. Thank you for helping us help you help us all!

                            Comment


                            • Sounds good.
                              Seriously. Kung freaking fu.

                              Comment


                              • Re: this post in the Angels Embassy by Kassiopeia:

                                Posted in the Angels Embassy by Kassiopeia
                                Yes, the Gaians have confirmed to us that this trade will be carried out. The further organization of this trade operation I will leave to the more able hands of our Colonels
                                So we need to formally send Ecol Eng, pre-accepted, to the Gaians this turn, I presume. Do we also send it to the Angels, or do they get it from the Gaians in exchange for delivering Cyberethics to them and us?

                                Comment

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