Sparta-Morgan Relations

[Googlie]

Summary of our Morgan Strategy discussions

Much of this thread concerns tech trades, so for easy reference I've extracted those that seemed to be dealing with a more strategic view of Morgan as a threat or possible ally

Posted on October 9 by Kassiopeia
How should we relate to them, I wonder. I think I'll go pretty neutral, polite but cold, for now. I do think of them as our #1 threat, but that's because they're steamrolling everybody in While We Are Waiting.

Posted on October 9 by Googlie
But on a more serious note, do we think that we should enter into a tech-trading/leapfrogging Pact of Convenience with Morgan, for, say 20 or 30 turns so that we both keep up/get ahead of what seems to be a mature Angels/Gaians axis?

It's be nice to get Fusion power, Aircraft, photon shield defenses and plasma shard before we part company with them (except they'll have those too )

But more rto the point, if in this type of a relationship we could subjugate the Uni and PK's, at least while leaving the Gaians/Angels axis to battle the Hive, IMO it'd be worth it

Posted on October 9 ny KrysiasKrusader
I'd rather see if we can deal with the bungling buearocratic Gaians.

Better to face them later on, than an organized Morganite team.

After schtomping Zakharov, he'll provide us with reasearch (remember).

Then we grab some nice Hive real-eastate.

All the while - we are dealing/scheming/scamming whoever up into the technology tree.

Then we turn on the bloated/decadent Morganites.

Then we zing the Angels.

That will leave the tree-loving, worm-kissing Gaians for the final show down.

Or somethin' like that...

Posted on Otober 10 by Googlie
It's maybe time for a full Junta meeting to thrash out our strategy in more depth

Till now it's been (or at least my understanding of it is):

• stay friendly but cool for the time being with all 3 human factions
• make the Uni our submissive research engine, and so be it if this leads to:
• Eliminate the PK's, capturing and assimilating their bases
• Ally with the Gaians to remove Yang as a threat
• Take out Morgan, with or without the Gaians help
• now so strong as to be invincible, turn our attention to the Angels, and subjugate them
• break with the Gaians, subjugate them, and declare ourselves El Supremo

Given the data that is emerging, we maybe need to re-evaluate that strategy (if indeed this is our strategy)

Posted on October 13 by Kassiopeia
However, if we are to use Morgan as an "energy generator" as I've mentioned in the foreign policy strat thread, a treaty now would be a good time to set a favourable precedent to that

Posted on October 13 by KrysiasKrusader
I'm not concerned. As things seem to stand, considering that the Gaians and Angels are cooperating, Morgan needs us more than we need them. If the Morganites are shrewd enough, they should be realizing this as well...

Posted on october 13 by Kassiopeia
We can always "hold the treaty hostage" to them. I don't see the intel we'll provide them from a ship we control that crucial. IMHO they aren't going to gain much from it. Besides, if this'll make them warmer towards us, all the better. Make them feel like they'll do great business with us (the reality need not correlate with this feeling).

Posted on October 16 by Googlie
It's maybe time to sound them out fully on a pact 'till level-8 tech discoveries, shared leapfrog research, agreement as to SP's etc, followed by a "thereafter may the best team win"

Posted on October 16 by Kassiopeia
I'm not sure about the pact proposition right now. That's a very longterm strategy so we'll have to have more opinions from the Junta for that (but I wasn't going to post it right now in any case). I liked the idea of bleeding them dry before they get too big - but was it at level eight that you thought would be a good time to start the bleeding?

I agree that pact negotiations would be nice to get underway though, considering our planned attack on the Uni and our need to have a cobelligerent.

Posted on October 18 by KrysiasKrusader
Tough call. That's a tough call indeed...

As things stand now (which is effectively = everything up in the air), an isolationist approach, while keeping the door open to an alliance with either Gaia or Morgan.

Meaning: Hold onto what we got, unless we can deal with a pactmate to further our goals.

Posted on October 20 by Googlie
Hmm - how about my putting out unofficial feelers to the Morganites re their thoughts on a Pact with deep significance

(As leader of the Pro-Morgan wing of the Junta)

Maybe Morgan doesn't want to climb into bed with the first of the 3 women he meets. (maybe he prefers Zak, or Yang or Lal!!) - especially as he hasn't seen what the other 2 could offer.

And it might require a leap of faith on their part to trust us if I said "We are by far the most technologically advanced Human team, and have the biggest population and army of the human teams", but without actually specifying to which tech level we might Pact, sound them out in principle to see if there might be interest on their side.

Their first contact comment re the supposedly cosy relationship between the Angels and the Gaians suggests that they will at the very least give weighty consideration to any "feeler" I could put out.

(In fact, maybe we should try something similar to all 3 factions, from a different "champion's" point of view. - and maybe Maniac, as you've already had some off-the-record talks with GM, perhaps Zeiter floats the trial balloon with the Gaians and you do so with the Angels?)

Posted on October 20 by Kassiopeia
I endorse the idea of throwing "feelers" by different people to all three factions.

Googlie's Confidential Memorandum occurred here - not quoted as too long and as it appears on the previous page anyway

[Googlie]

.............. continued ...............

Posted on October 21 by KrysiasKrusader
The Morganites should get the PTS SP. This is practically a must have SP for these guys. Once they do, it will solve so many of their early game problems. Watch their power graph jump once they complete it. They, also, can spread laterally once they have this indefinetly. Morgan, doesn't even need to be in FREE MARKET to get the +2 energy cultivation per square.

Posted on October 21 by Maniac & Googlie
Maniac - We're doomed!
Googlie - Do I detect that the Gaian champion may be thinking that an early Morgan invasion may now be the way to go?
Maniac - It would be very good for us on the short term, but it would definitely lead to a 2-to-1 situation not in our favour.
Googlie - A quick "kill"of Zak, then make him submissive (while he still just has a handful of bases), then turn on Morgan (before they get perim defenses and better than level 3 armor or fusion). We need missile or chaos troops, with amphibious capability landing from cruiser transports

Maybe the Gaians and Angels are tied up with the Hive? And Lal is a bit too far away right now to present a credible threat to us.

Googlie again - Well, we know that they {Morgan}are going to complete the PTS in 2144 (they'll never start an SP that they can't finish in 1 turn)

I say a priority should be infiltration of Morgan (we get Lal's - somewhat - through Zak's "back door" infiltration)
- even if we have to waste a probe team or 2 (ours and Morgan's) to get it

Posted on October 21 by Kassiopeia
Hmm. Also consider PTS. That might make the Morganites jump so high in the power chart that we could plot the others to join forces to whomp the Morganites with us. Then strike a pact with the Gaians, wipe out the Hive, wipe out the Angels...

Posted on October 21 by Kassiopeia
In fact, to them it's looking like our thought of a pact was originally a hasty decision, which we're now pulling back, since we're so... stern and resolved. It takes time to build such an image, though, and we haven't actually done anything erratic yet, so there wasn't much to lose to begin with. Our actual integrity will probably be brought to a true test later on.

Posted on october 21 by Googlie
As other junta members post, I'm becoming more and more convinced that the real threat to us is Morgan. He's the one that's beaten me in PBEM's I've been in as Sparta (Mongoose most recently) as they can virtually get any SP instantly and can throw up Perim Defenses and then Tachyon Fields almost in 1 turn by their ability to generate thousands of ec's during sunburst activity (or even by stopping all research for 1 turn)

I was howled down in derision when I suggested that we could out-populate them (thru growth and conquest) for a diplomatic win, and I think we all agree that if we let them grow too strong then we'll never be able to defeat them militarily

The order of our Quest for World Domination (the QWD Statetgy option) might well turn out to be:

University
Peacekeepers
Morgan
Hive
Angels
Gaians,

might it not?

Posted on October 21 by Kassiopeia
Heh. I'm really just going with the flow, but I have to admit that Morgan's a dangerous foe. A massive machine of energy that is impossible to counter if allowed to go unchecked for too long. I've seen this in While We Are Waiting, and AFAIK AndiD isn't even one of their most gifted Morganite players (?).

[Googlie]

Re:

Extracted from recent Embassy files

Posted by Major Kassiopeia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A copy of a personal memorandum from Captain Googlie to your CEO Chaunk (or possibly another Morganite senior executive such as jtsisyoda) has come to the Junta's attention. I am personally not aware of its contents, but by order of Lieutenant Colonel Maniac, senior officer of the Junta, please disregard its contents.

Captain Googlie has been cashiered for his intemperate actions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Replied to by CDO Mead

Huh? What happened

Suggested response:

Oh - just some internal squabbling between the pro-Morgan and pro-Gaian wings of the Junta

(That ought to set their hearts racing - as clearly the pro-Gaians are in the ascendancy right now)

[Kassiopeia]

I think "power struggle" would be a bit better in place of "internal squabbling". I could throw in a line no how it'll have no effect on official negotiations etc., you know, the usual spiel you throw when you want to assure people nothing's really amiss. (Which to the careful reader implies that something indeed is amiss.)

[Googlie]

better

[Kassiopeia]

posted by me in the Morgan embassy

A power struggle between the Gaian-minded and the Morganite-minded factions of the Junta. It has been dealt with, and it will not have any influence on official negotiations. Please ignore any further communiqués from Captain Googlie.

[Kassiopeia]

Oh, should that be

Captain Staff Sergeant Googlie

?

[Maniac]

Hmm, I'm wondering if I should change my sig to reflect our current "internal problems".

Options:

If you must do harm to a man, harm him in such a way as to prevent him ever being able to seek revenge upon you. -- Niccolo Machiavelli

It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both." --Niccolo Machievelli

OR

Me and my people have an understanding. They say what they want and I do what I want. -- Friedrich the Great

[Googlie]

They're all good. the first is perhaps more apposite to the Spartan-Morgan intrigue (but would be lost on the others).

# 2 is fairly bland and generic - fits anywhere

[Googlie]

or maybe Sun Tzu's the Art of war:

If a General is feared, his men will fight for him. If he is feared and respected, they will win for him

[Maniac]

Ah yes, I'll use that one.

[KrysiasKrusader]

I like the summary Googlie did on the previous page (I have no idea how some of you can manipulate all the controls on a computer so well and in such short amounts of time.).

I'm happy you guys are having fun with projecting an image of internal dissenscion amongst ourselves, but this is not something I feel that will serve the Spartan federation well in the long run.

My opinion is my own, of course, but I would be projecting an image of a 'pillar of strength'. It would fit better in role playing too. En tous cas. We'll see how this pans out over the course of the game...

[Googlie]

But Lieutenant Colonel Maniac is our pillar of strength, ruthlessly quashing and demoting any rivals or objectors.

Of the 3 leaders who stumbled from the Unity flight deck to hold open the shuttle doors for the followers to enter, the redoubtable Lt Colonel has banished GeneralTacticus who knows where, and rendered major Jamski a blithering idiot (cf his last post a couple of months ago when he had his fellow officers believing (pun intended) he'd met Miriam and was now speaking in tongues)

If Kass can spin these revolving faces and tech trades into some semblance of an internal powerstruggle between doves and hawks - with hawks winning, (the march of the Elites with their wormy friends on the leashes beside them) over the doves (the Junta officer class sipping cocktails and nibbling on canapes with the Morgan aristocracy), then we'll have achieved much more in diplomacy than we could by sabre-rattling and sounding "stern and unyielding"

We've semed weak and vaccillating, with different voices speaking for the faction.

Now if Kass will proclaim the Maniac Doctrine, and subtly tell the others that Fortrss Sparta is not to be messed withm, then we can run unfettered around the globe.

The only sore point sticking in the Lt Colonel's craw is the presence on the Hunter of that pesky Morgan Observer. But guess what? It's a five year treaty arrangement, that expires in 3 years. How strong and resolute will we seem then when our Lt Colonel declares to them:

Begone. I never did condone Googlie's pathetic attempt to win your friendship and trust. I've had enough of your whining. Keep your measly 4 ec's per annum and get the hell off my boat

GGLIE

[Kassiopeia]

Now would probably be a good time to throw out an issue of The Phalanx. Include a scoop on the sudden demotion of the new bright Lieutenant Colonel to... "Curator of the Military Museum"?

[Maniac]

Mead proposed a deal: they get EthCalc and they pay 6c for 15 years.