Sparta-Angels relations

[Googlie]

Shall we sound out the Angels re: trading PE for MMI, and they build the AV and we build the CF? (ie, we tell them we'll stall trading PE to Morgan)

They might just buy that, as the AV is worth a lot more to them than the CF, I'd imagine (I mean, we'd rather have the AV ourselves), but the CF is OK for us too, with its insta bio-enhancement centers

[Snoddasmannen]

Yes I think we should suggest that asap, and if they disagree we should seriously consider building the Ascetic Virtues ourselves.

[Googlie]

Posted this to the Embassy:

Posted by googlie in the Embassy
Might the Data Angels be interested in a straight exchange of Planetary Economics for Mind-Machine Interface?

If so, we'll stall our discussions with Morgan on trading them PE, which would let the Angels proceed with the build of the Ascetic Virtues SP We, of course, would still like to build the Cyborg Factory, as we do see that ultimately we will be the faction to stare Yang down to get the Hive out of the game, so the CF is an almost must for us.

So any deal would be contingent on the Angels changing your SP build from the CF to the AV, and letting the Federation complete the CF

Interested?

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Googlie
Hmm - I wonder if there's a way we can get the University to build the AV, then extort the base from Zak?

If the Angels don't bite on the PE deal, why don't we contact Kody when we first get our 2176 turn and see if he can use his Codicil program to enter the game, go to the Uni, and change the production of one of their bases to the AV, then exit back to our turn (I think it can be done - I did it last year with the Believers to stop them with their colony pod rush tactic)

The rationale is that they are submissive to us, and if a human-controlled faction would accept our research suggestions and our build orders, then so should an AI contolled faction that's submissive.

Then we can send the ginfreighter and a couple oif crawlers to that base to rush the SP.

Whether or not we subsequently try to extort that base from the Uni is moot for the time being

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
Yes I think we should suggest that asap, and if they disagree we should seriously consider building the Ascetic Virtues ourselves.

Inventing a casus belli: They still haven't recognized the University protectorate status...

[Modo44]

I think the Angels' failure to respond is reason enough.

[Snoddasmannen]

Originally posted by Googlie

The rationale is that they are submissive to us, and if a human-controlled faction would accept our research suggestions and our build orders, then so should an AI contolled faction that's submissive.

Well that is reasonable, and it would be ideal. But imagine the floodgates this would open up. It's a slippery slope if you allow this once. There would need to be a framework of rules or people could start requesting to control individual units.

Inventing a casus belli: They still haven't recognized the University protectorate status...

Anybody else have an opinion on stealing the AV? It's a very important decision and it needs to be made asap imo. A casus belli is vital of course, for roleplaying purposes

[vishniac]

Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
Anybody else have an opinion on stealing the AV? It's a very important decision and it needs to be made asap imo. A casus belli is vital of course, for roleplaying purposes

Against!
Violating a deal about an SP and invading their pact brother at the same time is asking for trouble!

Though...if they declare vendetta after we invade Lal, we won't be bound anymore by the deal.
So, I'd say we prepare to do it in case they retaliate to the Operation PW

[Snoddasmannen]

Originally posted by vishniac


Against!
Violating a deal about an SP and invading their pact brother at the same time is asking for trouble!

But on close examination, what trouble? An Angel invasion? Cessation of fruitful technological trades? All we really stand to lose is our trade income. Perhaps the gains are larger?

[Zeiter]

I'm also against stealing the AV unless the Angels declare war on us first. My primary fear is an Angel invasion of former PK land. We wouldn't have a very strong foothold down there for a few turns (we'd need a few more needlejets and probes, imo). Instead, my suggestion is to turn the entire Arcadian continent into a sort of "Fortress Arcadia", if you will, before we do too much to agitate the Angels.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by vishniac
So, I'd say we prepare to do it in case they retaliate to the Operation PW

Ahh... Preparing a casus belli, and making them jump on it. Perfect.

[Snoddasmannen]

Originally posted by Zeiter
I'm also against stealing the AV unless the Angels declare war on us first. My primary fear is an Angel invasion of former PK land. We wouldn't have a very strong foothold down there for a few turns (we'd need a few more needlejets and probes, imo). Instead, my suggestion is to turn the entire Arcadian continent into a sort of "Fortress Arcadia", if you will, before we do too much to agitate the Angels.

I hadn't even thought of that, good thinking But do you really think the Angels have a large standing army ready to pounce at us? Remember, we will have an entire invasion army in the area. The noodles will be damaged I guess, but it will still take a considerable for to do any damage by violence.

Probe teams though, that's a different issue I guess. They could have a few of those standing by ready to wreak havoc on us.

But I doubt it, I'm guessing all the other factions are tied up building infrastructure.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
Probe teams though, that's a different issue I guess. They could have a few of those standing by ready to wreak havoc on us.

Could we see their Probes if they were keeping them inside Lal's bases? Does the infiltration provide that info? And even if they are not in bases, I suppose they could be hiding close enough for action...

[Snoddasmannen]

Originally posted by Modo44

Could we see their Probes if they were keeping them inside Lal's bases? Does the infiltration provide that info? And even if they are not in bases, I suppose they could be hiding close enough for action...

Yeah I'm sure we could see any units they have in their bases. As for others hiding close enough, we could use some spare fuel from our noodles to check the nearby fungus and stuff like that to buy some insurance.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
Well that is reasonable, and it would be ideal. But imagine the floodgates this would open up. It's a slippery slope if you allow this once. There would need to be a framework of rules or people could start requesting to control individual units.

I think that a case could be made for directing a submissive in certain areas, but leaving them autonomy on others:

for example - use the codicil to:

• set SE choices
• Direct research
• start megaproject SP's
• declare war or accept truce or treaty (although in the latter event, I believe that they would follow our direction in-game)

Obviously, the AI submissive should be left to deal with other base builds, unit movements, energy allocations, etc