Diplomatic Contact with the Spartans

[livid imp]

Originally posted by Chaos Theory
Others may be interested to learn that the Spartans do in fact have Morgan's commlink (and vice-versa, of course). Thus, their statement that they could not get it from Yang, while perhaps true, is misleading in that we wanted Morgan's commlink from Sparta. They are untrustworthy.

Well, do unto others, as they've done unto you. Honesty should now be optional when dealing with the Spartans. I say we mislead them anytime we feel we wont get caught do so.

I say we go to them and say a "reliable partner" of the Gaian Union has informed us that you indeed have had contact with the Morganites, and that you were purposefully withholding the commlink from the Gaian people. Not only will that put the on the spot, but they will also wonder who the rat is that sold them out. This will increase their paranoid tendencies, thus weakening relations with the other factions.

[Chaos Theory]

A detailed record of what happened:

10-10-2004 17:54
Originally posted by Googlie

Onward to the Gaians

Attachment: acdg3-gaians, 2142.zip

Date Posted: 11/10/2004 8:05 AM
Originally posted by Illuminatus
I am sorry Googlie, but Gaians will soon have networks infiltrated as well, so I don't believe if we are interested in it at all. I was wondeing what do you require for Morgan's comlink, once you buy it from Chairman Yang.


Omnia mutantur nos et mutamur in illis.

Date Posted: 12/10/2004 3:30 AM
Originally posted by Googlie
Dear Lord Illuminatus:

We understand your reluctance to expend energy credits for information you hope to soon have yourselves.

Unfortunately the Chairman is not being very compliant right now as regards parting with commlink information (perhaps as a result of our rover rummaging around in his territory}. However rest assured, we will keep trying.

(And please pass on our best wishes from our covert operations specialists to your undercover agents as they attempt Hive infiltration. The offer is still open to provide specific Hive base data if you wish to view any base defenses beforehand)

Major Googlie (Commander, Covert Operations, Sparta Federation)



Currently assigned to the XXXXXXX (Censored by order of Lt.Col Maniac)

Note that at some time before 17:54 10-10, the Spartans obtained Morgan's commlink. As of 3:30 12-10, Googlie lied to us about Morgan's commlink. Even if they didn't obtain it from the Hive, he misled us, and lied by saying he would continue to try to get Morgan's commlink.

[Illuminatus]

OK, it is almost two days after we rejected all Spartan offers and everything seems to be quiet. Should we break the silence and offer a deal of our own ? For example, Doc: Flex for Biogenetics and 10 credits?

[binTravkin]

Yeah, definitely!
We must now show initiative - we turned down their insultative deals, now we must offer ours - more fair ones!

[Chaos Theory]

If we do, we need to be clear that embargoes need to be short or nonexistant. I expect they will reject our deals, but we really should make them anyway so they have an idea what we expect and why they're bad trading partners.

[binTravkin]

If we do, we need to be clear that embargoes need to be short or nonexistant. I expect they will reject our deals, but we really should make them anyway so they have an idea what we expect and why they're bad trading partners.

You read my mind

[Illuminatus]

May I ask what are the limitations in possible tech trading for Flexibility? For example what is the limit we can offer - in credits, technologies etc. I think we should use the fact that we got 50 credits for Sparta's breaking of trade embargo coupled with fact that IA is a level 3 tech (and they value tech levels) against them, and proclaim that tech value of Flex is 50 credits or 83 without five year embargo - leading to initial offer of Biogenetics and 20 credits for Doc:Flex with embargo (real target - Flex for Biogenetics for 25 credits). We can refund some of cost later when trading it to Angels.

[Natalinasmpf]

Even if they didn't obtain it from the Hive, he misled us, and lied by saying he would continue to try to get Morgan's commlink.

Is that legal, or not?

[Chaos Theory]

We shouldn't depend on possible returns from a trade with the Angels, as the Spartans will likely try to hastily trade Doc: Flex to them if they trade it to us with a short embargo.

I doubt they truly value tech levels as much as they proclaim, but we can certainly act like we do, and put the pressure back on them. The incremental cost of breaking an embargo on Doc: Flex should be approximately 33 ECs, and no more than 50, by their logic.

They may not value Biogenetics highly, since they have some of the techs that would have it as a prereq, and can always, in principle, obtain it from Morgan. For what it's worth, the Spartans have obtained Industrial Base, despite earlier claims that it is worthless to them. We can use that to counter their argument that our tech is worthless.

[Hydro]

I’m glad the Spartan’s one-sided ‘deals’ were rejected. If they don’t want to play equitably then they can go play with themselves (a somewhat frightening mental picture). In particular, their ‘tech level’ argument is moronic, and an obvious ploy to get us to bite. I suggest you tell them that.

Also, you may have noticed the little quotations at the base of some of the Spartan player’s posts. Although I don’t recall the exact words the intent stuck: We’re ruthless, and the world is full of targets. So, if we roll over and say ‘please don’t hurt me’ then that is exactly what they do. It is clear the Spartans are role playing, so they expect strength. Hence, my suggestion to call them on their tactics and tell them that if they are interested in a profitable relationship then they need to pony up – tough but fair.

Hydro

[Illuminatus]

I intend to play along on their tech level argument for now - using prices they inadvertently suggested to lower the prices we will pay for Doc: Flex and EthCal. Then we can reject the argument.

(also Hydro, there is a nice bit that they put quotes in their sigs - perhaps we should do the same thing?)

[Chaos Theory]

Originally posted by Natalinasmpf

Even if they didn't obtain it from the Hive, he misled us, and lied by saying he would continue to try to get Morgan's commlink.

Is that legal, or not?

It's perfectly legal to lie, but we can react however we want.

[binTravkin]

Also, you may have noticed the little quotations at the base of some of the Spartan player’s posts. Although I don’t recall the exact words the intent stuck: We’re ruthless, and the world is full of targets. So, if we roll over and say ‘please don’t hurt me’ then that is exactly what they do. It is clear the Spartans are role playing, so they expect strength. Hence, my suggestion to call them on their tactics and tell them that if they are interested in a profitable relationship then they need to pony up – tough but fair.

Sounds very reasonable!

[Natalinasmpf]

We can use that to counter their argument that our tech is worthless.

There's no point in arguing.

The point is to get Flex. If they use an excuse, and we destroy the excuse, they still might not want to budge...they still have the option of turning nasty.

[Chaos Theory]

That's fine, let them turn nasty. They can't do a thing to us yet, so either they look awkward turning down our deals, they accept suboptimal deals, or they make empty threats. I want to get the ideological upper hand. That is, I want to make them look like the aggressor to themselves, to make it absolutely clear to them that they do not have any particular reason to attack us. Then, they will have trouble recruiting allies, and may have trouble supporting a war internally.