Third Constitutional Committee

[Frankychan]

Bah!

While I agree with Comrade Octavian's, Comrade Chairman's, and Comrade HongHu's opinions on this matter. I cannot fathom how our faction has degenerated into what it is now. While I respect Comrade Chairman's position, I will have to agree with Comrade HongHu in that he has stuck with the Hive from the very beginning. A great deal has happened since my return, and for that I am sorry.

What I can't understand is that now that we seem to be the faction on Planet most suitable to rule, our citizens are bickering amongst ourselves when we should be united in our decisions. This inner turmoil bullsh** is one reason why democracy DOESN'T work. Everyone has their opinion, and according to the Human Hive's past history, was doing very well until people decided that they wanted to have a direct piece of the action.

I cannot agree nor disagree with this, because I DO believe that each of us should be allowed to voice our opinion on what direction the Human Hive is going, but everyone should still be aware that one's opinion may not be the best course for us to take.

Enough of this for now. I think the Human Hive was going very well but this dissent looks like it may rip ourselves apart....something that would royally piss me off. But as I said when I first joined the Human Hive, I'm still a loyal citizen until the end.

----and that's all I have to say about that.-----

[Enigma_Nova]

Use whatever you want as a base but don't be so tied down by laws.
Realistically we don't need laws here, save for exploring ahead and multiple turns.

I still advocate an idea where people would each judge right from wrong then create their own plan of action.
But people are not used to thinking, and people are lazy.

There should be at least some way to put the working, intelligent people like myself on a pedestal, or at least to mitigate the power of those that would rather be told what to do.

I don't see the need for a 'chairman'. Why do we need an alpha dude, anyway? We can all make judgement, and post a poll if there is contradiction, right?

I support Anarchy because I believe any and all government stifles the people's ability to create their own agenda and pass judgement for themselves - something which would work well in a game of wits such as this.

Of course if the government you propose still leaves a LOT of scope for personal freedom I'll probably agree.
What I disagree with is an omnipotent chairman. The forum needs a moderator, and we do need folk that can handle the legal mumbo jumbo.
But why create false gods to rule over us?
Why do we need a leader when we can all lead ourselves?
Why does the will of The Hive need to be personified? It is there in spirit in all of us.

Enigma_Nova, burdened by hatred but unburdened by the foolishness of old earth.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
But why create false gods to rule over us?

My sentiments exactly.
Instead, you can let me rule over you

[Enigma_Nova]

>_<
Walked into that one.

waits for tassadar to hand him what's left of his ass

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
>_<
Walked into that one.

waits for tassadar to hand him what's left of his ass

PWND!!!!111!!!1

[Enigma_Nova]

Don't be so lazy!!one!eleven

[Snowflake]

I would like to join in with Comrades Frankychan and Mead to ask Chairman Voltaire not to resign. You have done a great job from the very beginning and the Hive will not have its greatness as of today without your leadership.

To answer Enigma's question, we need a chairman to be the forum moderator, to authorize people, to lock, delete and top threads. We also need the chairman to lead the people in spirit, to unite people, and to represent the direction of the team in game. The Chairman does not have to make decisions regarding each details of the game. In fact, minor decisions could be left to the corresponding people who is responsible for that aspect of the game, and major decisions should be decided based upon the will of the people.

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by HongHu
To answer Enigma's question, we need a chairman to be the forum moderator, to authorize people, to lock, delete and top threads.

I know this. But we'd call such a person a 'moderator', and not a chairman.

We also need the chairman to lead the people in spirit, to unite people, and to represent the direction of the team in game.

We ARE the people. -We- make the direction. It is -our- spirit.
Surely we don't need some man sitting at a desk to convince us to work for what we believe in.

Enigma still advocates minimal government, so people govern themselves and so grow stronger and wiser

[Snowflake]

If people are all like you, imagine the direction we would be making.
/me sees a picture where many people pulls a tied knot in many directions.

[Frankychan]

No offense Comrade Enigma_Nova, but if you don't like the idea of a "chairman", why did you join the Hive in the first place?

I know that this IS a democracy game, but shouldn't your decision in joining a specific faction represent your own belief system? I personally believe that having a "chairman" instead of a "moderator" keeps the spirit that is the Human Hive intact as well as gives this democracy game a bit of flavor that goes beyond it being "just a game".

I support Anarchy because I believe any and all government stifles the people's ability to create their own agenda and pass judgement for themselves - something which would work well in a game of wits such as this.

If you truly believe in this statement, again, I ask why did you join the Human Hive? As stated before, I am not attacking nor discrediting your own opinions, but I do believe that we do need a strong government to make sense of all of our demands/questions/comments/etc.

So far our government has done a good job (IMHO) of getting all of our inputs together, no matter how divergent they may be, and coming out with a reasonable final product.

Again, I totally agree with Comrade HongHu's statement. We'd all be trying to go in different directions with a net result of 0. THAT is not what the Hive is about. Making a small personal concession so that the whole can benefit IS what the Hive is about.

Once more, while I respect your opinion Comrade Enigma_Nova, I don't agree with it.

[Jamski]

We need a chairman because we need to have someone to make the final desisions, and we need someone to blame when it goes wrong.

-Jam

[Mead]

Originally posted by HongHu
I would like to join in with Comrades Frankychan and Mead to ask Chairman Voltaire not to resign. You have done a great job from the very beginning and the Hive will not have its greatness as of today without your leadership.

To answer Enigma's question, we need a chairman to be the forum moderator, to authorize people, to lock, delete and top threads. We also need the chairman to lead the people in spirit, to unite people, and to represent the direction of the team in game. The Chairman does not have to make decisions regarding each details of the game. In fact, minor decisions could be left to the corresponding people who is responsible for that aspect of the game, and major decisions should be decided based upon the will of the people.

WAIT A MINUTE.

I DID NOT QUITE REALIZE THAT THE CHAIRMAN ACTED AS MODERATOR.

THAT POSITION HAS REAL POWER TO DO GOOD AS WELL AS EVIL.

Although some of us don't like Voltaire, and some of us would like the power for ourselves, I think all of us would agree that Voltaire has served honorably, and fairly as Chairman and moderator.

Some of you have had issues with him in the past, but from what I have seen in the past few weeks I have been here, is that he has not used his ability to edit your posts to silence you. It looks like he has delegated a lot of power and responsibility, not hogged it.

To others who are unhappy and seek to replace him. Think hard before you do. He has been emotionally well-balanced, honest, and has worked hard and well to ensure the operation of the Hive. He has not hogged the turn, wantonly edited or deleted posts (even ones that were very, in several cases unfairly, critical of him), and he has been patient with us all. From what I have seen he has treated all those within the Hive with maturity, toleration, and respect.

I have been happy with him. To those who are not, please think of who else you want and trust to carry out the work, before you let him resign. It could be a lot worse for all of us.

I do believe that developing additional leadership within the Hive is a good idea. But, before we (if we) let him resign, let's have a procedure in place to orderly transfer the Chairmanship to a successor, as well as the mechanics to recall (replace) the new Chairman if the new Chairman proves unsuitable.



Mead

[Snowflake]

Very well said, Comrade Mead.

[Voltaire]

Thank you for the support to those who have given it, but my resignation remains in effect; I will honor my word and let the people have a democracy and democratically decide their leader.

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by Frankychan
No offense Comrade Enigma_Nova, but if you don't like the idea of a "chairman", why did you join the Hive in the first place?

It involves an apprenticeship with Kody.

but shouldn't your decision in joining a specific faction represent your own belief system?

'cuz then it would be a PBEM.

I personally believe that having a "chairman" instead of a "moderator" keeps the spirit that is the Human Hive intact as well as gives this democracy game a bit of flavor that goes beyond it being "just a game".

And of course, there's an RP element in all this.
But why make a leap from the Roleplaying to the Real? Surely The Hive has an RP chairman, but does this justify it having an administrator?

Meh... I see your point. I shall keep my own government system on hold until the next DG, where I will unleash it.

If you truly believe in this statement, again, I ask why did you join the Human Hive?

Whereever I go, I will find something that can be improved.
I guess I like the Elitism of this place.

but I do believe that we do need a strong government to make sense of all of our demands/questions/comments/etc.

And I did swear to work on a system that stifles no man, did I not?
Well, if this strong government does not stifle the ability of people to pick faults with it then I suppose both our needs are met.
However, as men have egoes so too do governments have egoes, and hate to be criticised.

Why join The Hive if I want to question my rulers?
It's mainly the Kody apprenticeship. In hindsight I should be with the Free Drones.

Again, I totally agree with Comrade HongHu's statement. We'd all be trying to go in different directions with a net result of 0.

If we agreed on a goal this would not be the case.
However I can see this sort of thing happening with Foreign relations.
For whatever reason people support their own viewpoint, and thus we would never reach a conclusion.
When your opinions are as stifled as mine are (already I've had a few Hiverians insulting my intelligence for suggesting an intellectual revolution), you do tend to get a bit upset at democracy.

So, I work towards a system where my beliefs are not downtrodden. While I am farmiliar with the flaws of Anarchy in a demo game, I am also aware of the flaws of Democracy.
I intend to engineer a system where no man is stifled as I was in the past - and a system with rules and regulations (that I would not normally follow) is stifling.

If you want me to be specific, what I resent about the current system is that there is 1 man with a lot of power (IMO all opinions shoulf have power) and differences are resolved by siding with the majority (as opposed to negotiating an amicable solution for all parties).
Sure, all men will be stifled whenever there's a conflict of interest, but I get tirelessly peeved when I'm consistently shut out. (Take note that it has made me lust for revolution, see sig)

Anarchy isn't the only solution, but I fear a solution with rules and regulations will appeal more to the conformist than to the idealist.
Let no decision stifle any man, that is my main goal
And let no man be stifled against his will for the backup.
While people have the ability to be jerks I am of the opinion that such a race of people does not exist here.

In short, I push for a system where I won't undergo the same frustration of times past on Earth, basically having my ingenious and nonconformist ideas being OWNED by the stupid mob.
Democracy runs on the stupid mob. Despotism runs on their leaders, so either way the mob wins out.

I suppose I'll have to bear it... for now. But I am working on a governmental system where such creativity is rewarded.

Making a small personal concession so that the whole can benefit IS what the Hive is about.

Take note that what 'benefits' the whole is usually judged by the Chairman.
There are many ways for an amoeba to evolve and so too there are many things that can 'benefit' the Hive.
By unilaterally proclaiming 'The Right Way' you can stomp on those who have other ideas (which may well work).

Enigma has gone back to the lab to work on his 'Free Spirits' political system