Third Constitutional Committee

[Jamski]

Monthly sounds ok. If noone challenges the election then the incumbent retains the job?

-Jam

[Snowflake]

I nominate Voltaire. He's been doing a good job. He had never quit the team. All of us had not been working for the team one point of the time. Except for that one turn when he had exams Voltaire had never left the team unattended. He spend tremendous time on MSN talking to people. Even on that turn when we hadn't played for 5 days, I know that he had talked to Rokossovky (for he was supposed to be the turn player) and others multiple times so I would not put the blame entirely on his shoulder.

Voltaire is competent and trustworthy. He will not desert his comrades. I will vote for him.

[Snowflake]

Oh and another suggestion. I think we probably should elect the three or four key officials too. If they are all appointed by the Chairman I worry if they don't work it will be solely the Chairman's burdon to locate them and talk to them. Whileas if they are elected they have to answer to the people.

[Octavian X]

Jamski: If there were no challangers, I'd just change the election into a regular yes/no vote on the Chairman's continued term in power. That way, the chairman could be removed if people didn't want him in office any longer. This scenario assumes people were just too afriad the run in the first place.

HongHu: We'll start some elections after we have a new constitution, not while we are discussing it.

Elections for officials under the Chairman is a feasible enough option. My only concern is that we'll still have deadbeats in office, meaning that we would really need to set strict standards on expected performance, as well as create a quick mechanism for removal.

[Snowflake]

Oops sorry. I saw Enigma's post and thought that we are to make norminations right now.

I agree with you that we probably need to set expected performances for key office holders and mechanism for removal. Also people who are planning to be busy for a short period should announce ahead of time and find somebody to temperarily cover for him.

[Enigma_Nova]

Why do we need a chairman, anyway?
Someone tell me why Voltaire's position is important?
What prevents us from self-governing, as it were?

[Kody]

For people that have concentrated mainly on turn playing, volatire's work has been mainly behind the scenes.

Voltaire has given me alot of advice when I've been uncertain of what path to take and dealt with many of the issues that have arisen with dissatisifed members.

Also when a decision (sometimes temporary) must be made for the short run that can't brook waiting more than 12 hours, Voltaire as chairman has been on MSN to authorise the decision. Without that many of the critical trading opportunities would have been missed due to it being too late.

Voltaire also happens to have a more medium opinion in many diplomatic matters. While Honghu and I usually go for strong trust and squeaky clean diplomancy, Voltaire is there to remind us of those that don't support that kind of approach. He's helped with figuring out the comprimises.

Oh yeah, he's the one that runs all the government roleplaying. There wouldn't be much government roleplaying at all without him.

To sum up, he plays the devil's advocate, he deals with unrest, he allows decision to be made taking responsibility for them, he's also been one of the bridges between turnplaying and the hive as a whole, and he runs the government roleplaying.

[Kody]

I'm not paying much attention to the new constitution, so I'll leave it to others figure out how those things fit in (or if they fit in) with a new government system.

[Jamski]

he plays the devil's advocate

To my devil.

he deals with unrest

created by me.

and he runs the government roleplaying.

It takes two to tango

-Jam

[Voltaire]

I have a proposal. We will hold provisional elections for a Chairman soon, that Chairman will be responsible for the new constitution, whereupon they will resign when the new constitution comes into effect and we will hold new elections under the constitutions. Sort of like in the first ACDG with the first Commissioner.

[Enigma_Nova]

Writing a constitution?
Ehh...

Why's it a one-man show, anyway?
I'd support HongHu, if only because I trust her to involve the other folk.

Have I not *****ed about having my unconventional and wise opinions heard? As one of the few surviving people not to be affected by a common stance of morality, I could be an excellent addition to the constitutional formation comittee

In the end I'd have everyone jump in. I'd sooner have the matters resolved now than have us devolve into infighting.
(and you KNOW that if I feel stifled I can blackmail you by refusing to play the turn)

Voltaire, while I appreciate your training, here your learning is your prejudice. No need to base a constitution on the laws or guidelines of old.
Laws? We are smart enough to understand the social implications of our actions. Laws are for those too stupid to see their effects. If a person thinks the current way works they will work with it and if not then they will help update it.

Note that I am going to some lengths to avoid the tragedies of Earth reappearing on Chiron - don't throw it in my face with a less-minded pro-rules anti-creativity anti-judgement system or DOOM BE UPON YOU!

[Octavian X]

Voltaire, while you work on a proposal, let me add one more suggestion: try to keep it relatively simple.

For realism's sake, having such bodies as the PAC and the People's Congress were nice. However, for our game, I feel that such bodies are unnecessary on the grand scale of things for this demogame.

[Voltaire]

Interesting how the responses received do not quite seem to hit the mark as to the intended topic, what I’m saying is simple, you wanted democracy, I’m giving it to you, now elect a Chairman to start writing the constitution the ‘people’ want. I, in all honestly, did try, but the responses received in terms of suggestions were vague and few.

With that, so that people can get their act together, I am officially resigning as Chairman, as of this moment we do not have a government, so I would suggest to the people to get their act together and elect a new one. Being a private citizen and one most adamantly opposed to the changes taking place and in the new spirit of apathy, I no longer have responsibility to organize these elections. Thus to those of you who support democracy, you have your wish, now act upon it.

[Octavian X]

Voltaire, I thank you for the fair manner in which you have dealt with this matter, and for your service to the Hive. Your willingness to step aside and allow for a new Chairman to be elected is truly a testament to your greatness.

Still, I would be interested in seeing your proposal for a new government...

[Mead]

Originally posted by Voltaire
Interesting how the responses received do not quite seem to hit the mark as to the intended topic, what I?m saying is simple, you wanted democracy, I'm giving it to you, now elect a Chairman to start writing the constitution the ?people? want. I, in all honestly, did try, but the responses received in terms of suggestions were vague and few.

With that, so that people can get their act together, I am officially resigning as Chairman, as of this moment we do not have a government, so I would suggest to the people to get their act together and elect a new one. Being a private citizen and one most adamantly opposed to the changes taking place and in the new spirit of apathy, I no longer have responsibility to organize these elections. Thus to those of you who support democracy, you have your wish, now act upon it.

If we are going to have a new Constitution, let's pattern it on something simple, we'll known and easy to use.

Myself, being from the United States am familiar with the U.S. Constitution.

I think we can kind of base it on that or one of the other democracies around the world.

There are a few things I like about the US one.

1. I am familiar with it, and know how it works.
2. It really is simple, just a few pages, and it seems to have worked reasonably well over the past 200+ years.
3. It already, with its amendments spells out how to elect and recall the executive.
4. It shows how the legislature (people) influence power.
5. It shows how the courts work and how basic rights are protected.

Please, please, please, note, I don't want to get into a philosophical dispute over US policy or politics (past, present, or future). I make the suggestion as a pragmatic solution to the problem. It may make the job of writing a constitution easier (we may even be able to copy it electronically to MS Word, modify it to suit our needs, and vote on it).

There are a few changes I would like to see.
1. Replace the Congress with a Parliment (a two house legislature is too complicated and unwiedly, plus we have too few members)
2. Change the term of years for a Chairman from 4 years to something longer (perhaps 8, it should be debated).
3. Remove the two term limitation on the executive.

Please let me know what you think. If you have there is another constitution we should consider basing ours on please suggest it. Whatever we choose we will have to make some modifications to fit our unique needs.


Mead

PS

I do not think we should accept Voltaire's resignation just yet. I think that he should stick around as Chairman at least until we get something else in place.