HIVE diplomatic exchanges

[Maniac]

Since, if everything goes right, we should be able to get the PEG ourselves, has this not become an unnecessary discussion? Though of course, until we are sure to get the PEG MY 2154/5 or so, we should try to keep up appearances as if we're interested in selling AdapEcon+PEG, to prevent them seeking a deal with PEACE.

[Drogue]

I would be very much against this. What's worth more, the PEG or 2/3 techs? We agreed earlier to try to sell it to both Hive and Drones in the same turn, as the techs were more valuble. Why do we need the PEG so much? Sure it's a nice SP, but it's not worth 2 or 3 techs. We need Eco Eng and Env Econ. Boreholes give us more energy than energy banks.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Why do you say 2-3 Tecs?

I dont think the Hive will actualy trade 2 tecs for Adaptive Econ and the Drones are not being very responisve.

I am incressingly leaning Back towards building the PEG for oursevles and conducting the nessary trades with Uni to get us to restriction lifting. Without our help the Hive will have a very long march to get to Planetary Econ so the tec will still have value after we build the project.

I am also less shure of the Hives intentions now that they have had yet another internal mix up, they might try to back stab us.

I think we should trade Progenitor Pych for Doc Loyalty as these are both low level tecs and we both need them to reach our goals. Tell them we can trade Adaptive Econ AFTER we have obtained the PEG but not before unless they swear not to take the project from us. In any event we should conduct the trade in 56 so that we have the Project totaly Locked down no matter what tretchery they might attempt.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Also I estimate once we are in a FreeMarket we could generate nearly 300 Credits a turn by pushing Econ up to 80%.

We could then use that energy to hurry a number of reserach inducing facilites or treeFarms or Chreech's (what ever we want). Then switch everything back to reserch and come out ahead in reserch over the long run.

Labs dont actualy do any good for us untill we GET the tec in question, Credits on the other hand are imediatly usefull if they are invested into infasturcture and the investment is most usefull when it is made as far in the PAST as possible. So logicaly we want to generate a large quantity of Credits first and imediatly invest all of it, then over the next few turns reap the benifit of the investment by grabing our next tec asap. Once that is reaserched we can spend one or two turns at Full Econ again and make an additional wind fall. By consentrating Credit Production early and Labs later we make maximum use of our efficiency rating (something the others Cant do becausue of their Social Engingering).

Thus the PEG will be a HUGE bost to both our Credit AND lab production because we will be able to lay down nodes like crazy and once we have nodes we are EQUAL to the university in reserach advantage!

[Maniac]

I'm with Impaler on this one.

Drogue:

What's worth more, the PEG or 2/3 techs?

If we traded AdapEcon plus PEG, we could probably get one tech from the Drones and two from the Hive. If we traded without the PEG, we'd still get two in total: one of the Hive and Drones each. So the difference is only one tech. But even if it would be more, I'd still consider the PEG more valuable.
Consider this:
If we capture all possible PEACE bases, we will have a faction with 20 bases. If we would have to build energy banks in all of those, it would cost 20*80=1600 minerals, and cost us 20 credits maintenance per year. So with building the PEG for 300 minerals, we're saving 1300 minerals and 20 credits per year. That's certainly worth one tech less IMO.

Impaler:

Also I estimate once we are in a FreeMarket we could generate nearly 300 Credits a turn by pushing Econ up to 80%.

I agree. Though keep in mind we now have an agreement with PUT to research MMI. So in the next few years, after we got the PEG and need credits a bit less for a while, I would suggest we switch back to 70% labs and research MMI as fast as possible. When that obligation is done, I fully support going 80% economy and hurry lots of infrastructure!

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
I dont think the Hive will actualy trade 2 tecs for Adaptive Econ

They have said they will trade for two techs.

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
I think we should trade Progenitor Pych for Doc Loyalty as these are both low level tecs and we both need them to reach our goals.

Doubt they'll go for it. Prog Psych is of little use IMHO. Of we say trade after, they'll simply trade with PEACE and build the PEG.

I will go by majority decision, but IMHO, that is a very bad one. The Hive will simply trade with PEACE. And that is bad.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Maniac
If we traded AdapEcon plus PEG, we could probably get one tech from the Drones and two from the Hive. If we traded without the PEG, we'd still get two in total: one of the Hive and Drones each. So the difference is only one tech. But even if it would be more, I'd still consider the PEG more valuable.

The Drones would not trade for it without PEG (they'd get it from Hive), and the Hive would simply trade with PEACE and try and build it. I think we'll get nothing if we don't trade it. But hey, it's democracy.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Drogue
The Drones would not trade for it without PEG (they'd get it from Hive),

Obviously when we trade it to the Hive, we should include a trade embargo clause.

and the Hive would simply trade with PEACE and try and build it.

That's why until the end of MY 2154, we have to act to the Hive as if we're interested in selling AdapEcon plus PEG. After MY 2154 they can no longer prevent us from getting the PEG anyway, so then we can offer a real trade proposal. For them it would make no difference then anymore who they traded with: they wouldn't get the PEG anyway, so they might as well trade with us to prevent a serious decline in the Hive-CC relationship.

[DeathByTheSword]

hmz...i like the idea...but i am kinda scary about the hive secretly helping PEACE...they will not send troops because we will know but still. with credits and maybe technology they will help PEACE enough so that they can delay us enough so that they can go to war against the UNI...btw on a more general note....if ever an human faction attacks an other human faction and we dont go to war...may i suggest atleast aiding the losing party so that the winning party will have a harder and longer war on its hands...

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Maniac
Obviously when we trade it to the Hive, we should include a trade embargo clause.
If they go for that?

so they might as well trade with us to prevent a serious decline in the Hive-CC relationship.

Don't you think making them believe we will trade with PEG, then doing them over and building it ourselves, will cause a serious decline in our relationship? I'm not ready for a Hive vendetta yet. If we want to keep relations with them, then either trade it with PEG, or try to get a deal without the PEG. IMHO a Doc Loyal and Eco Eng deal is well worth it, since we will gain hugely from having boreholes. But if we don't agree, I say tell them.

If we're going to build the PEG, then we need to tell them and try to trade Adapt Econ without the PEG.

Whatever we do, they're just going to go and trade with PEACE IMHO. And quite rightly. If we refuse to give them what they want, and another faction is willing to sell it, I'd expect them to go for it.

Moderated by Drogue

[Maniac]

Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
btw on a more general note....if ever an human faction attacks an other human faction and we dont go to war...may i suggest atleast aiding the losing party so that the winning party will have a harder and longer war on its hands...

I agree. Currently we're doing that more or less by trading PUT all of our top military technologies and leapfrogging to MMI.

Btw, if the Drones effectively attack PUT instead of only probing them, do I assume correctly we will fully help PUT?

[DeathByTheSword]

well i dunno...from a winning-the-game-point-of-view ofcourse...but maybe we should ask for a (military) base on PUT soil to help with the defence (for a getting-as-much-as-possible-and-kinda-roleplaying-oint-of-view)...we could put troops in all there bases as Peacekeeping forces (ally with PUT but dont declare war on Drones)...creating a situation that the drones need to declare war on us...making them the agressors...not that is matters much but makes nice 3D headlines and stories

[Maniac]

oh my!

[Drogue]

Moderated by Drogue

[DeathByTheSword]

what is our official standpoint btw

Moderated by Drogue