CCCP's Workshop.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus


Why would that be a problem? Using Wealth just means a greater focus on economic and industrial development.

At the expense of everything else!
Wealth is saying that of the things we value (power, knowledge or wealth) wealth is the most important. I think many people, especially CCCP, would feel a little uneasy about declaring that about all else we want money. The Morale penalty is designed to show that the people have become accustomed to having material things, and, like Morgan, prize comfort so highly it has a detrimental effect on society. It creates a society based on greed and the rat race, which is exactly the mistake that caused Earth's downfall IMHO. While of course the Peacekeepers will do whatever the majority wants, I believe we should value happiness over material gains.

I'm sure there was a point in there somewhere!

[Pandemoniak]

Only knowledge could improve our well being as human kind.

[Drogue]

well put!

[GeneralTacticus]

Isn't the whole point of Marxism to create a society in which everyone has their material needs met? Quite apart from that, Wealth will often result in faster research than Knowledge, due to the economy bonus.

[Drogue]

Yes that is Marxism, everyone has their needs met, whereas wealth is more likely to lead to injustice and apathy (I doubt the drones get any more, and the Morale expanation seems to suggest apathy)

While it is true it can lead to faster research, I was only refering to roleplaying, not necessarily the actual effects. I simply think we should be more concerned with knowledge than with wealth, as i think wealth breeds greed and injustice.

I'd like to see a poll not on what values model we should use because it helps us in the game, but on what we should strive for, what we actually value.

[GeneralTacticus]

How so? Wealth is, as I have said, merely a focus on industrial and economic development. How does this lead to injustice?

[Drogue]

Generally a focus upon gaining money (the 'rat race') and on economics development leads to some people having much money, whereas others get less. It generates conflict between people and greed. I believe the focus on industrial development leads to plundering of Planet's resources to try to make more money. Quite simply I think our development as a faction depends more on our knowledge and influence than the amount of Ec we have.

[Kirov]

"Being determines consciousness" means, amongst other meanings, that the most important thing is to give food to the people. After that they will get aware of their handicapped social position and start to fight for their freedom.

Marx hasn't said anything that can lead to conclusion the "Knowledge" is the best of all values listed in SMAC (survival, power, knowledge, wealth).

[Drogue]

I never said he had, though I think he would have disagreed with the pursuit of wealth above all else. I believe knowledge should be our aim, but then I am no Marxist.

[lucky22]

Originally posted by Drogue
I never said he had, though I think he would have disagreed with the pursuit of wealth above all else. I believe knowledge should be our aim, but then I am no Marxist.

This discussion has come up before, as well. Personally, I think [Wealth+Free Market]=[Hell on Chiron] pretty much as you are describing. [Wealth+Planned] on the other hand might even be seen as describing an idealized euro-socialism, which is indeed pretty darn close to the direction Marx and Engels wanted to promote.

Taking the issue to be the distribution of the access to resources for individuals, absolutely the confusion of "wealth" and "right to necessities" which provides the steam for the turbines of optional consumption markets is abhorrent. Planned economic choices are an alternative way to deal with the central problems of appetite and decisions regarding the allocation of resources. Wealth in this context can mean more resources not enslaved to the appetites of private, even sociopathic individuals. Ideally, of course.

[lucky22]

Originally posted by Maniac
So if CCCP wants to prevent FM, two things can be done:
1) Give crawlers an important place in our economy. On Old Earth such mechanization would cause redundancies of human workers, but here on Alpha Centauri with our limited population there is always need for extra work forces.
2) Prepare for Golden Age. Not sure what we would need to do for that. Build Rec Commons and Network Nodes??

I believe 2) will also be abetted by cheap and easily available Holo Theatres.

[Drogue]

or the Virtual World

[Kirov]

I think we won't trigger the Golden Age without switching the silders on 10% or even 20% PSYCH.

[GeneralTacticus]

Do you have a problem with that? Combined with Wealth, the resultant economic benefits would more than outweigh the costs.

[Maniac]

Besides Kirov, extra Psych represents government support for matters such as cheaper education, mobility & public transport, social & health security, culture, cheaper drinks in the Rec Commons... Surely you cannot be against that?

Edit: seeing its name "Psych", I suppose it also contains support for religious and spiritual organizations, and going to the psychiatrist (???). Right? I didn't know our citizens needed that much mental healthcare. What kind of future is this?