CCCP's Workshop.

[lucky22]

Ironically enough, RAH has gotten back to me indicating tmb is not listed as a banned person. -sigh-

[Main_Brain]

No Internet for a Week ahhh..
now if I only knew what

"quirky"

means
*search Dictionary*

[lucky22]

Here's a quick question for our informal association of like-minded citizens: Can a SE decision of Planned/Wealth be ideologically justified? Having gotten hold of a copy of Velocyrix's guide, I notice he outlines one early game strategy involving such a combination, with Children's Creches in each base. Gamewise, the efficiency hit is basically nullified.
As far as a real-world analog for such a combination, it seems to look something like northern Europe and France, though I could be sorely wrong. Marx discusses both revolution and evolution as means for the progress of humanity, and I do think that modern Europe would probably hold up as an illustration of his (and Engels') evolutionary outlook. Not that we're talking about paradise or anything.
Can "planned" be considered to represent collective direction and ownership of capital even in conjunction with a "wealth" choice? That would leave "free market" to represent private ownership, land-lords, and other such atavisms. What do we think?

[GeneralTacticus]

Can "planned" be considered to represent collective direction and ownership of capital even in conjunction with a "wealth" choice? That would leave "free market" to represent private ownership, land-lords, and other such atavisms. What do we think?

Though I'm not a party memeber, I can say that the 'Wealth' choice simply represents a focus on economic and industrial development, and it does not require capitalism.

[Schinkenjoe]

I don´t think planned is ideolcically justified, cause there always somebody who says anybody what to do and produce.
I think it doesn´t matter if this somebody is legitimated democratically.
Then it would be democratic injustice.
But i think a period of wealth in combination with childrec creches is very good, because the resulting growth brings us much wider possibilities.

[Pandemoniak]

The planification of economy doesnt represent orders from a superiror authority to industrial and economic infrastructures : it is the application of a plan. Needs are planned, counted and archived, and then these needs are fulfilled for everyone. The centralisation of this process by the State and the Government is actually a bad thing, while it makes it long and (-2) inneficient. Others would prefer free markets, meaning self regulated markets.
My choice, personnaly, favours Planned Economics for the fairness of these. Achievment of happiness by material ways and meaning is rendered possible to all, because of Planned, while Free Market will only make it accessible for a few privilegiates, self regulating their own wealth.

The most important impact of planned economics is that the planification of work and industry will allow us to save our production : this way, we can save up to 10% of building costs. On the other hand, this choice would allow us to have a perfect control of bases infrastructure, providing home, food and bases for living to many families, thus increasing our population growth.

Feedbacks welcome.
Pandemoniak,
in [U]Working Men and Planification[U]

[GeneralTacticus]

Pande: But who does the planning? Somebody has to. And that means the planners are effectively telling everyone else what to produce and consume. Centralization != efficiency, nor does it equal fairness.

[GeneralTacticus]

btw, I'm not against Planned per se, I think it is a necessaity in the early years to speed up our growth and industry. I just take issue with people saying we should use it because it is right; I'm in favour of using it just because it works.

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
Pande: But who does the planning? Somebody has to. And that means the planners are effectively telling everyone else what to produce and consume. Centralization != efficiency, nor does it equal fairness.

Special UN inspectors are sent throughout our faction territory and notes all that is needed throughout the faction. Then, to each according to his/her ability, people are told what to produce, in a very imaginative way : farmers produce nutrients, miners mine, shoemakers make shoes, etc... etc... Then the production is re-distributed according to the plan.
It means fairness, not because of the centralization, because of the redistribution. The centralization is just a process that we cant avoid to use -- for the moment, but maybe we'll find some day a perfect society that we could call Eudaimonia. This redistribution means a 10% save on every industry, and a +20% growth on every base. It's all shared and equal. Thats what I call fairness.

[GeneralTacticus]

But on what basis is produce redistributed? What if there isn't enough to go around?

[Pandemoniak]

Well there is always to go around, since this production has been planned, the production is always whats needed since the whole thing is to produce what is needed.

[Maniac]

Just wanting to build 1000 factories to get the goods produced doesn't mean they will actually all be built in one year. So what indeed if there's not enough to go around?

[lucky22]

Originally posted by Maniac
Just wanting to build 1000 factories to get the goods produced doesn't mean they will actually all be built in one year. So what indeed if there's not enough to go around?

Are we talking necessities or optional consumption? "1000 factories" implies optional consumption, certainly. In general, if there isn't enough to go around corruption is a likely culprit (reflected as an efficiency hit). At that point peoples rights are infringed by crime and not policy.
A big question is being raised here as to how "rights" are defined. Obviously, I militate against ownership of property as the primary determinant of rights to access resources. If corruption is starving a population, it is likely disempowerment has so frayed the moral fibre that a dark age is nigh, not because land-lords aren't getting a fair shake.
Both corruption and the "someday I'll be rich by winning the lottery or by entertaining the masses" mindset of the working poor are issues which are parallel to our socioeconomic choices. From here 'til kingdome come, a planned economy will open the door to corruption and a free-market economy will enslave the under-educated with false dreams. With no simple answers, we ought to keep pushing for Eudaimonia- if only by making such a dream less false day by day through hard work and moral behavior.

[Maniac]

[GeneralTacticus]

Well there is always to go around, since this production has been planned, the production is always whats needed since the whole thing is to produce what is needed.

1) Just because you plan to produce enough doesn't mean you will.

2) Who decides how much is enough anyway?