Solving the Tassadar Problem

[Jamski]

Where in this thread do I accuse him of that?

Anyway - how about his confirmation to the CyCon that the Hive had made a map of Planet by sticking together infilteration pictures. That in itself is a step too far.

-Jam

[laurentius]

Jamski you are not the first one trying to get the temple(s) closed

I second jamski in every word he has said on this thread....yes those words too

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by Jamski
Where in this thread do I accuse him of that?

Anyway - how about his confirmation to the CyCon that the Hive had made a map of Planet by sticking together infilteration pictures. That in itself is a step too far.

-Jam

! What would be wrong with this...?

[FlameFlash]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Pardon me. I tend to try to make light of situations sometimes.
No, worshipping is simply another spam-staple. You aren't forced to do it - Notice that I've stayed pretty far away from the PEACE forums?

Because arguements often seem to ensue? I'm not following...

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
If CyCon ever tell me to stop spamming their forum...I'll do it. As you've noticed, with the exception of that...tete-a-tete, PEACE is completly free of my presence.

There have been some...faction leaders of certain factions who have played the game differently than others.

That's because you've always gotten pounced on though... I would too in that kind of a situation.

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Because, I'm trying to tell people(without crossing the line between telling them and exposing faction information) that not everybody has played this game fair and nice, and that I know about these things and others don't and so they should simply trust my judgment.
An ill-fated attempt at influence other peoples decision making.

You are in a unique situation here... but then so is everybody else, Tass. Your very personality from my oberservations pins you as somebody who doesn't hold much sacred, if anything, and enjoys finding... a humorous side to almost every situation. That kind of humor isn't always appreciated. Googlie, when he posted often in the ACDG always had constructive things to say. Random comments like 'I burn the Data Angels flag' or whatever it was certainly isn't going to garner you much support... but then at the same time you don't seem to care if you have support or not... which again makes it so you don't garner much.

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Well...

But I allowed the defection anyway because its so late in game.

I thought you allowed it because that's how the voting ended up...

Originally posted by Jamski
Where in this thread do I accuse him of that?

Anyway - how about his confirmation to the CyCon that the Hive had made a map of Planet by sticking together infilteration pictures. That in itself is a step too far.

-Jam

Eh? How is this a bad thing? I find it very resourceful.

[GeneralTacticus]

I think he's objecting to Tass telling us, not to the Hive doing it.

[FlameFlash]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
I think he's objecting to Tass telling us, not to the Hive doing it.

Ah... yes, wouldn't that be on the end of the in-game info being passed around?

[Snowflake]

I agree with obstrutor that I don't see anything constructive in this thread.

I see three points being accused of tass.

One, he creats temples for people to worship him.
If one doesn't like worship, tass has not forced anybody to worship him. You don't like a temple, you don't go there. If nobody goes there, then the thread drops and there is no need to close it. The PEACE do not like spamfest with tass, the end result is that tass do not appear much in their forum. In the Hive we never have any problem with this. Tass opens a thread, some people post once in it, others don't, and it drops naturally. And from what I read in this thread, CC's temple was dropping until Jamski showed up.

Second, tass passes sensitive information. The only example I see is that he confirmed that Hive has made a planet map from infiltration information. What's the secrecy in that? If Hive infiltrated everything they could of course make a map out of that, anybody has a little brain would be able to figure that out without anybody telling you this. If this is where the accusation comes from, I really doubt what your brain is made up.

Third, tass has made in game decisions without vote. I have not seen any example regarding this accusation. If a faction feels that an unfair decision was made against it, it should raise objection when it happens, not casting wild accusations randomly. If it turns out that such occassions occur often, I'm sure most players will support a discussion about replacing tass who always make unfair in game decisions. However I have not seen this happening.

If it is about unstylish spam, admit it, we all spam to a certain degree. One has the right to attack somebody for unstylished spam, but one also has the right to post however he wants, and bear the associated risk. This has nothing to do with whether tass is doing a good job as a CMN.

I understand in addition to the need to increase some people's postcounts, there are also personal likes and dislikes involved. But please try to be objective and fair when you cast your accusations.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Random comments like 'I burn the Data Angels flag' or whatever it was certainly isn't going to garner you much support

Ah come on.... He's just expressing his disagreement with the fact that more people voted for a multi-faction game than a single faction one. Isn't it enough that you guys won that one?

[Jamski]

You missed the big point again.

Tass is claiming Godlike authority over our ACDG. Why is this? When did we all get together and say "Tass is our leader! Let him make desisions! Let him moderate our Private Forums!" Googlie perhaps has some authority, as he created and set up the game, but why is Tass acting like he's in charge of the ACDG?

THAT, ladies and gentlemen is the point. If we had elected Tass as out god, then I would have no objections to his behavior. The whole question of information passing or styleless spam is only a side issue. The main question is : Does the mod serve the game, or does the game serve the mod? I really feel that in a democracy game, the democratic players of that game have the right to decide these things.

I also think this is the perfect moment to make these points. Too late for the changes to disrupt the current game, but in plenty of time for the people to discuss and debate the arrangements for the next game, and the role and position of any future mods/gods/CMNs, and how they should be defined.

Or is it usual in a game of football that the referee gives himself a free kick?

-Jam

[FlameFlash]

Originally by HongHu
Third, tass has made in game decisions without vote. I have not seen any example regarding this accusation. If a faction feels that an unfair decision was made against it, it should raise objection when it happens, not casting wild accusations randomly. If it turns out that such occassions occur often, I'm sure most players will support a discussion about replacing tass who always make unfair in game decisions. However I have not seen this happening.

Two occasions he's ruled against PEACE. Both times there was no easy way to bring it to a vote so Tass knew he had the advantage.

Once proper wording of a poll was finally created that all, including Tass, thought was unbiased, it was moot because we'd been forced to play through.

That's about my only beef with this system, there is no easy way for the game group as a whole to make rulings because that would reveal too much about each team.

Now, if we didn't worry about that as much (and played a more friendly game) it would have been easier.

I know quite a few PBEMs that some bug has cropped up, everybody is told about the full situation, and a decision is made... but maybe the CtP crowd is just nicer than the AC one

Ah come on.... He's just expressing his disagreement with the fact that more people voted for a multi-faction game than a single faction one. Isn't it enough that you guys won that one?

Considering his position though, there are ways of doing it that doesn't seem as though he's simply baiting... similar to the much kinder way you just said it?

[FlameFlash]

Originally posted by Jamski
Or is it usual in a game of football that the referee gives himself a free kick?

-Jam

Depends on the type of kick and the location that the referree kicks himself in I suppose... though I must say that the referee is very talented as long as it's not a kick to the rear.

[Jamski]

Two occasions he's ruled against PEACE. Both times there was no easy way to bring it to a vote so Tass knew he had the advantage.

Once proper wording of a poll was finally created that all, including Tass, thought was unbiased, it was moot because we'd been forced to play through.

That's about my only beef with this system, there is no easy way for the game group as a whole to make rulings because that would reveal too much about each team.

A good point - let it be said, I'm not against the idea of a CMN per se, but I think anyone in this reponsible position should be chosen in a fair and democratic manner before the game, or be someone who's neutrality is not in doubt - i.e. the person who created the scenario originally MUST be trusted to be impartial, and have a track record as such (Googlie, Darsnan etc)

-Jam

[FlameFlash]

So much more is being defined all the time... I really doubt we'll have as much trouble in the next game as we did in this one.

We know that most PBEM unmentioned rules are out the window due to not everybody being aware of them and we know that there are individuals who are playing to win as opposed to playing to have fun and roleplay.

As long as we encourage more have fun and roleplay, and can get a CMN to encourage that in the private forums who can also quickly figure out wordings of polls for situations that doesn't reveal anything the team doesn't want to reveal we're good to go, IMHO.

What we didn't realize at the start of this was how much the CMN may still be needed after the creation, which is what hit Googlie and all of us so hard in the first place.

Like the PK constitution we just need some kind of CMN guidelines for next game to help the CMN know what the players want without forcing the CMN to reveal game-important material when it woudl be detrimental.

[MrWhereItsAt]

[SIZE=1] Originally posted by FlameFlash Considering his position though, there are ways of doing it that doesn't seem as though he's simply baiting... similar to the much kinder way you just said it?

Trust me, I'm considerably annoyed that I will be out of the game and moreover it seeming that no-one listens to our POV, just dismisses it as negative, and it takes a lot to hold back like that.

I think all this is rather silly actually - maybe before the game got to this point, but with FAR more activity aimed at designing the next game than finishing the old, can we just let the thing end quietly first? It's not going to take long by the looks of it all.

[Jamski]

Agreed And we need an impartial CMN as well that is respected by all factions.

-Jam