Is it just me, or is CIV V not really very good?

[binTravkin]

Lol, people not liking because it's "hard"? This game is ridiculously easy, because of the AI and unbalanced civ traits.

I just had a domination victory on deity, huge pangea map, last weekend.

And that was like my third game.

I used to play CIV 4 on Emperor in casual mode and sometimes Deity when I wanted to do everything and micromanage the crap out of myself.

[rah]

Yeah, that's my issue also. It was funny because II was also easily beatable at the top level (yes, I still ignore III) but you never found many people that complained about II. And when IV originally came out, people were complaining because they thought it was too hard.
Looking at V, currently there are some easy tricks to beat it at the upper level, BUT, if they can tweak the AI to perform better in combat, I think the upper level is eventually going to be considerably harder. I know that will be the focus once all the obvious issues are resolved.

Thinking back when IV came out, I don't think in terms of completeness is that much different than V, and I think IV turned out pretty good.

[rah]

Yeah, that's my issue also. It was funny because II was also easily beatable at the top level (yes, I still ignore III) but you never found many people that complained about II. And when IV originally came out, people were complaining because they thought it was too hard.
Looking at V, currently there are some easy tricks to beat it at the upper level, BUT, if they can tweak the AI to perform better in combat, I think the upper level is eventually going to be considerably harder. I know that will be the focus once all the obvious issues are resolved.

Thinking back when IV came out, I don't think in terms of completeness is that much different than V, and I think IV turned out pretty good.

[Ming]

True enough... Civ 4 BTS was much tougher. In Civ 5, I've already won all the different victory conditions at Deity level. Granted, I made sure I was playing the right type of maps and civs that were appropiate for the different types of victories, but it took me a long time to beat Civ 4 at Deity level. And frankly, I don't beat BTS that often at the highest level.

[binTravkin]

For me IV wasn't that easy when it came out as it didn't have the exploits of V (Combat, Traits, CS, negative happiness + tradingposts thing, upgrading cheaper than building thing, etc).

[rah]

But it's much easier to program the AI when you can have SODs. Brute force is much easier when you don't have to worry about multiple units. ZOC, etc. The logic is much harder to do with 1up and much work still needs to be done.

[Ming]

I agree... I thought the highest levels of Civ IV were impossible when it first came out. Even the middle settings weren't easy at first. It took some time to understand what needed to be done to overcome the AI advantages. While the highest levels of Civ V can be tough, there are some things you can really exploit. Diplomatic victories are almost too easy. Conquest victories can be done with small but powerful armies since you only need to take the capitals. Cultural victories aren't all that tough either if you play the two city strategy using the city state strategy. Heck, the toughest was a science victory.

[Ming]

I agree... I thought the highest levels of Civ IV were impossible when it first came out. Even the middle settings weren't easy at first. It took some time to understand what needed to be done to overcome the AI advantages. While the highest levels of Civ V can be tough, there are some things you can really exploit. Diplomatic victories are almost too easy. Conquest victories can be done with small but powerful armies since you only need to take the capitals. Cultural victories aren't all that tough either if you play the two city strategy using the city state strategy. Heck, the toughest was a science victory.

[ColdPhoenix]

For me IV wasn't that easy when it came out as it didn't have the exploits of V (Combat, Traits, CS, negative happiness + tradingposts thing, upgrading cheaper than building thing, etc).

What's this cheap upgrade you talk of? It should be cheaper to upgrade than buying new as you've already invested resources in the unit.

[rah]

HE's talking about that it cheaper to buy the warrior, then pay for the upgrade vs. outright buying the swordsman. Which is a bit silly.

[ColdPhoenix]

Not from what I've observed, maybe it depends on the unit.

Yesterday I was attacked and upgraded some swordsmen to longswordsmen at a cost of 220g each. I then went to buy one new but didn't have quite enough cash, I ended up buying a swordsmen for 450g rather than waiting until I had the 650g to buy a longswordsman. I just ate the 20g loss as I needed the unit immediately but it seemed like a fair way of pricing.

[rah]

I think it's just the warrior to swordsman example that's like this.

[MxM]

True enough... Civ 4 BTS was much tougher. In Civ 5, I've already won all the different victory conditions at Deity level. Granted, I made sure I was playing the right type of maps and civs that were appropiate for the different types of victories, but it took me a long time to beat Civ 4 at Deity level. And frankly, I don't beat BTS that often at the highest level.

Did you win through conquest? Did you have large empire with negative happiness at the end and just steamrolled the rest despite the unhappiness? What map did you play on deity with Civ V?

[Guynemer]

negative happiness + tradingposts thing,

?

[Ming]

With conquest, all you need to do is take all the capitals, not all of the civs cities. I had a medium size empire and had a small but high tech army on a island map. You just move right up off the coast to their capital, declare war, and take the cap in just a turn or two, before they can respond... repeat on each civ... done deal. Unhappiness is easy to deal with unless you try to actually take and keep tons of cities. But I've played games with 20 to 30 cities and haven't had happiness problems. See Rah's city state strategy. If you are getting happiness resources from 10 to 16 city states, you can even afford to sell all your resources for cash, and still be happy
You might have to rush build an occasional happiness building every once in a while, but happiness isn't all the big of a problem in the mid late game unless you haven't planned for it. Big empires are very possible.