Is it just me, or is CIV V not really very good?

[timbrom]

I'm a long time CIV fan, cutting my teeth on CIV I; loving the advances made in CIV II; not really liking CIV III very much, aside from the Culture and Strategic Resources and the change in the stack rules. CIV IV, once I got to grips with the many layered complexities, seemed to be just about perfect, particularly by BtS.

But, what is CIV V supposed to be? It doesn't seem to improve on IV in any manner at all. Frankly, the combat is a bit of a bore and the stacking rules a pain in the backside. The city interface has been so comprehensively "cleaned up" that's it's close to useless and why-oh-why is the Build Queue so hard to get at? Plus, it's a system hog on anything under a quad-core.

Now, I may be wrong, I am only up to 1310 in my first game, so benefit of the doubt is in order, but has this been deliberately dumbed down for the console kids and/or newcomers to the game? If so, I want my money back and I will return to CIV IV and COL.

[Wiglaf]

You don't get your money back. Why would you think you would get your money back? There's no way you get your money back.

[Aro]

You don't get your money back. Why would you think you would get your money back? There's no way you get your money back.

[pdxsean]

I don't think we have enough people hating on Civ V. I sure hope someone starts another thread complaining and throwing out these vague "it's dumbed down" accusations.

[Boris Godunov]

Even if software companies gave refunds, it would only be for defective products (Stardock has been doing this a lot for Elemental: War of Magic since it was utterly broken on release and still doesn't seem to be patched effectively.). They certainly wouldn't give a refund just because you didn't like the game.

I'm enjoying Civ V for what it is--a new entry of the series, different from all the others. I think it has some flaws, but nothing that I can't see being corrected, either via official means or mods. And I've played every iteration of Civ as well, so it's not like I'm not devoted to the series. Civ V has a lot of great things in it that I am excited to add to the Civ universe, and it removed things that I personally never liked anyway (esp. religion and espionage).

[MxM]

@ Boris - Stardock is doing it with any piece of software, not only games. There is 90 day "money back guaranty" in their products. In this terms Stardock excels over any competition. (Good luck returning any game to Steam)

Is it just me, or is CIV V not really very good?

No, it is not you. Civ game was never really very good upon release. Right now, Civ V is just very good, it will take time to become really very good.

[Boris Godunov]

@ MXM, over at the Stardock forums there have been a lot of folks posting that while Stardock says they'll give refunds, actually getting them has been an ordeal. While I wouldn't deny that Stardock has better customer service than most software companies, that's not saying much.

[Dinner]

If you bought a box version (instead of a steam or D2D purchase) then there are several retailers who will take back game software even after it has been opened.

[MxM]

@ MXM, over at the Stardock forums there have been a lot of folks posting that while Stardock says they'll give refunds, actually getting them has been an ordeal. While I wouldn't deny that Stardock has better customer service than most software companies, that's not saying much.

I had very positive experience with them with other things in the past (not Elemental). I suspect that they are swamped by volume right now. Elemental was expected as a game from first class developer, meanwhile they are still in the mode of small startup company with limited resources, and it shows. When they were getting out GalCiv nobody knew about them (and with GalCiv II it was easier for them, because it was more like expansion and not absolutely new game). Anyway, I agree with what you saying - that's not much.

[MrWhereItsAt]

It's very streamlined.

I too have played since Civ the original, and I think, for the second time, that a 'reboot' was done. Civ 3 seemed like an effort to take lessons learned from Civ2 and SMAC and make a simpler game, introducing new concepts that were then developed into a more complicated game later (cIV). Civ5 is reminding me of those halcyon days (halcyon because of my forum memories) of Civ3.

I have been playing a perhaps overcomplicated mod of cIV for a year or more now (the Rise of Mankind mod from, er, some other forum which ain't quite as good as 'Poly), and although my first game session of Civ5 left me wondering where the rest was, coming back to the second session I started to really appreciate only having a dozen or so buildings to think about. OK, so I'm still on game 1, on Chieftain, but I'm enjoying exploring what is possible in the game, and I think I'm going to really like it. I can't say I've felt the same way so soon after the release of a Civ game since, well, Civ 1. Falling in love all over again...?

So time for me to sleep now (accursed OMT syndrome) - this post was mostly to check whether my account still works and my avatar refresh looks ok. Time to roll out the ole' Vegeta fallback...

[MxM]

It's very streamlined.

I too have played since Civ the original, and I think, for the second time, that a 'reboot' was done. Civ 3 seemed like an effort to take lessons learned from Civ2 and SMAC and make a simpler game, introducing new concepts that were then developed into a more complicated game later (cIV). Civ5 is reminding me of those halcyon days (halcyon because of my forum memories) of Civ3.

I do not know why people are complaining about Civ V being simpler. If anything it is HARDER. I think this is actually why people are complaing - they try a game on prince or king level of difficulty and they get their ass kicked because there is no such easy options like wealth/research sliders - you have to balance everything in advance - I am having difficulties myself as well, but I like it, because Civ V is truly the game "easy to understand, difficult to master".

It has some problems, like diplomacy screens could be improved - they could show AI relationship to you and to each other, or like the way that you do not know how many happiness resources you have (if more than one), and AI could be a bit smarter. But the fundamental gameplay is there, quite novel and quite challenging. I like this game and awaiting for the patches...

[MrWhereItsAt]

I do not know why people are complaining about Civ V being simpler. If anything it is HARDER. I think this is actually why people are complaing - they try a game on prince or king level of difficulty and they get their ass kicked because there is no such easy options like wealth/research sliders - you have to balance everything in advance - I am having difficulties myself as well, but I like it, because Civ V is truly the game "easy to understand, difficult to master".

It has some problems, like diplomacy screens could be improved - they could show AI relationship to you and to each other, or like the way that you do not know how many happiness resources you have (if more than one), and AI could be a bit smarter. But the fundamental gameplay is there, quite novel and quite challenging. I like this game and awaiting for the patches...

Actually, we agree more-or-less completely. Simpler is not the same as easier. I mean simpler because there are IMO fewer individual elements (buildings, units, civics, religions, espionage etc) to consider than in cIV (especially the expansive mod I've been playing). But the removal of, e.g., a gold/tech/lux slider from the game in some ways makes it a tougher thing to master the balance between these key elements. If you're low on cash, there are fewer options to increase it instantly than in the past, which makes it simpler, but also more challenging. With the combat massively changed too, it looks like strategic thought is being promoted as a far more integral part of everything that you need to do to survive and conquer.

[Aro]

Nice to see you, MrWhereItsAt...
My start was with Civ III. Instantly love, I was used to Age of Empires, and I just loved the turn based concept. I spent entire nights playing, and many times I looked out the window and saw the sun arises... Good times. Civ IV was good, but too many things to think about, and I already have this in my two jobs... I never got that sensation again.
Now, it's back... Just one more turn. Yep. I'm having fun again playing civ V. Again.

[Donegeal]

Don't have bed times at your old folks home Aro?

[Krill]

I do not know why people are complaining about Civ V being simpler. If anything it is HARDER. I think this is actually why people are complaing - they try a game on prince or king level of difficulty and they get their ass kicked because there is no such easy options like wealth/research sliders - you have to balance everything in advance - I am having difficulties myself as well, but I like it, because Civ V is truly the game "easy to understand, difficult to master".

I get the feeling you haven't seen this then.

And that is a fallacy of composition. Just because you are having problems with the game doesn't mean others are...