MOD: Patch suggestion MOD

[lockstep]

If I had to choose between, say, an OCN of 18 cities/100% and another one of 20 cities/90% (which yields the same result), I'd rather choose the former than the latter. (Maybe 'flawed' for the latter is too harsh, I should have used 'unelegant' instead.)

BTW, the same applies IMO for the current defense bonus of 10% for desert, plains, grassland, tundra etc. What's the point of a defense bonus if every other terrain type has at least the same bonus? (The 'elegant' way, IMO, would be to tweak unit defense values instead of terrain defense values.)

[lockstep]

While I was browsing Civ3's civilopedia, I noticed the entry for 'ironclad': 'The forerunner of the modern battleship, the Ironclad is a tough defender against anything but more modern warships.'

So why not let ironclads upgrade to battleships? (This would also solve the issue where to upgrade frigates and the Man-O-War.)

[alexman]

Great idea!

That would compensate for the fact that the mod reduces the shelf-life of ironclads. Now you keep them around longer before upgrading them.

It would also add a strategic decision of what to build when both frigates and ironclads are available.

PS: I still think Frigates should get an extra movement point

[Killerdaffy]

Originally posted by alexman
PS: I still think Frigates should get an extra movement point

I second that motion. Frigates were by far the fastest ships in any fleet under sail.

[lockstep]

Re: MOD: Patch suggestion MOD

Originally posted by player1
Changes in ver 1.26

Mech. Inf. has no more offense AI flag selected (has only defense AI flag now).
Since AI used too much Mech. Inf. instead of Tanks when planning attacks (and built Tanks rarely). This should fix that AI behavior.

Wasn't that AI behavior due to a bug that, according to Soren Johnson, has been fixed in Civ3 v1.29?

[Kloreep]

May I just say great work, Player1! I always play Civ3 using a slightly modified version of your mod.

As for the Mech Inf. offense flag: Yes, I think there was a bug that caused units with both offense and defense flags to always become offense when the AI upgraded them, even if the AI built them for defense.

But since you can always build Tanks if you can build Mech Infantry, and Tanks are stronger on the attack than Mech Inf., would there be a point to turning the offense flag on?

[kettyo]

player 1,

shouldn't you turn airlift on for workers too?
Even modern armor can airlift, why not workers?

(settlers definitively shouldn't though)

[lockstep]

Originally posted by Kloreep
But since you can always build Tanks if you can build Mech Infantry, and Tanks are stronger on the attack than Mech Inf., would there be a point to turning the offense flag on?

You're right, I forgot that tanks and mech infantry have the same ressource requirements. The only 'advantage' of mech infantry over tanks is that the former can be drafted, but I wouldn't want the AI to attack with conscript mech infantry.

So yes, the offense flag for mech infantry should stay turned off (and be turned off in future standard versions of Civ3/PtW).

Originally posted by kettyo
player 1,

shouldn't you turn airlift on for workers too?
Even modern armor can airlift, why not workers?

(settlers definitively shouldn't though)

Interesting idea. Yes, settler shouldn't airlift, but for workers it's debatable.

[player1]

Re: Re: MOD: Patch suggestion MOD

Originally posted by lockstep
Wasn't that AI behavior due to a bug that, according to Soren Johnson, has been fixed in Civ3 v1.29?

Yes, but considering stats of Tanks and Mech. Inf. and their resourse & tech. preq., there is realy no good point of such flag.

Because, in every city in which you can build Mech. Inf. you you are also able to build Tanks.

On the other hand hen you have no Horses Rilfemen & Infantry are righ (offense) way to go (especialy with MODed attacks of 5 & 8).

[player1]

Originally posted by lockstep
Interesting idea. Yes, settler shouldn't airlift, but for workers it's debatable.

Workers also represent huge number of pop.
(one pop oint exactly)

Like half of settler unit.


It's supossed to be much higher number then in Tank or Infantry unit.


P.S.
And anyway, if you need workers on some small isalnd just build them.
They cost just 10 shields.

No need for "aircraft migrations".

[player1]

Originally posted by Kloreep
But since you can always build Tanks if you can build Mech Infantry, and Tanks are stronger on the attack than Mech Inf., would there be a point to turning the offense flag on?

Exactly!

[kettyo]

Fighters get only lethal sea, since historicly Fighters were used for attacks on capital ships like dive bombers, but Fighters were not used as tactical bombers on land, until Jet Fighters became available.

player1,

Tell this to some veterans of the British Expeditionary Force, that those stukas bombed the hell out of them while waiting for entry to transport ships were not used as tactical bombers.

And AFAIK the latest german panzers of WWII could only be destroyed by airplanes of the anti-fascist coalition, because of armour strenght.

[player1]

Originally posted by kettyo
And AFAIK the latest german panzers of WWII could only be destroyed by airplanes of the anti-fascist coalition, because of armour strenght.

Ok, maybe I should have said "not too much effectively".

Not, "not used".

[kettyo]

Originally posted by Killerdaffy
Frigates were by far the fastest ships in any fleet under sail.

I don't know but in the game 'pirates!" (you know that superb c64/amiga game) a sloop or a barque could easily outrun it.

[Killerdaffy]

Originally posted by kettyo


I don't know but in the game 'pirates!" (you know that superb c64/amiga game) a sloop or a barque could easily outrun it.

Probably right, but then, how many cannons could you fit on a sloop or barque? Not enough to make them serious contenders in any armed conflict. And a golden age English frigate could still run circles around your average Spanish treasure galleon...