MOD: Patch suggestion MOD

[player1]

Patch suggestion MOD v1.45 readme (based on 1.29f patch)

Author: player1

Why "patch suggestion"? Simple. These are the changes that if added to original Civ3 rules (based on v1.29f Civ3 patch) would improve game balance and fun. I tried using the conservative concept of not changing the rules too much, if not necessary, in order to keep original Civ3 flavor. I hope that players of this MOD will find game more fun and interesting.

INSTALL INSTRUCTIONS:
Just put BIC file in scenario folder.
Load from game menu.

Here is the link to PtW version of this MOD.

Comments to changes in v1.45

Since Bombers in this MOD have operational range of 8, it seamed strange to leave Tactical Nukes with shorter range of 6. That's why I now increased bombard range of Tactical Nukes to 8 tiles.

I also fixed inconsistency of having Helicopters with longer range then Jet Fighters by putting operational range of Helicopters back to 6 tiles. Paratroopers still have airdrop range of 8, since they are carried by long range aircrafts, not helicopters.

MOD CHANGES

Upgrade paths:

Longbowmen, Swordsmen, Legion and Immortal upgrade to Riflemen. This way, AI won't have huge army of obsolete units. Still this upgrade is costly. This can prevent AI from building new such units in modern era (since normally they stay in building queue).

For similar reasons, to prevent having ability to build these units in modern age, Frigate, Man-O-War, Privateer and Ironclad upgrade to Destroyer. True, it does look odd to upgrade sailing ship to Destroyer, but look at the costs. To upgrade Frigate you need 120gp per unit.

Submarines get upgraded to Nuc. Submarines. Considering that Nuc. Submarines are better in every way, there are obvious reasons for new upgrade chain.


Unit flags:

All artillery units, Scout, Explorer and Leader get Airlift flag. I don't know why they are skipped in normal rules, since you can airlift tank. On the other hand Presidents (and other Leaders) do fly by the plane too.

Foot Unit flag added to Scout, Explorer and Leader units, in order to make them transferable by helicopters. Since these units already got Airlift ability, there is no good reason to prevent their transport by helicopters.

All artillery units, Tanks, Panzer Tanks, Modern Armor and Mech. Infantry gain Wheeled ability. This prevents moving them on Jungle and Mountain tiles if there is no road.
Note: You can move those units on enemy roads, you just don't get road movement bonus.

Army gets a pillage order.

Normally, Cruise Missiles can be loaded into transports directly, but not from city since they have no active "load flag". I fixed that bug and added load flag when needed.

AI defense flag was removed from Bowmen. Simply put, it was not good idea from first place. Although it could look logical at first glance, since Bowmen have defense of 2, they also upgrade to Longbowmen, a unit with defense of 1. And that could give some bad results for AI.

Cossaks get AI defense flag removed, since I've seen Russians using Cossaks instead Infantry to defend cities. And that's not good.

Mech. Inf. has no more offense AI flag selected (has only defense AI flag now), since AI used this unit too often instead of Tanks when planning attacks (and built Tanks rarely). This should fix that AI behavior.

It seems that there was a bug in AI, which made AI controlled player to use Paratroopers as main offense force instead of Tanks, if you increase Paratrooper's operational range value to anything higher them 6 (confirmed by Firaxis AI guys).

In order to fix the problem I added operational range of 8 to Tank, Panzer, Modern Armor and Mech. Infantry. Since they have no airdrop option, it won't matter in gameplay at all, but it would trick AI to see them as more worthy because of "higher" operational range.


Rate of fire:

Fighters and Jet Fighters get ROF of 2. I always wondered why Catapults have better bombard values then Jet Fighters. This will make those units not great bombers, but still useful since they also now have lethal bombardment ability.

Cannons get ROF of 2, but their price increases to 60 shields. This is done because normally, their firepower is on average weaker then firepower of two catapults. This should make them much more worthy and will reduce some micromanagement

Cruise Missiles get ROF of 4 to make them more devastating, and cost-effective (since they get destroyed after attack). Also, if they are lucky, they can kill 3hp (or even 4hp) Battleship.


Air unit tweaks:

Fighters, Jet Fighters, F-15 and Stealth Fighters get lethal sea and land bombard (they can kill units with bombards). All these units get Air bombard AI flag added.

Why?

These units are tactical bombers. They do their job from close distance. That way they can take out 1hp units. This won't be unbalanced since these units are much worse bombers then standard Bomber unit, and land units have huge defensive bonuses.

Jet Fighters get bombard strength of 4, to make them more distinctive from Fighters. They do have rockets anyway. Since it would lead to less powerful F-15 & Stealth Fighter, these units get increased bombard strength of 6.

In order to balance out increased Stl. Fighters bombard efficiency (compared to Stl. Bombers), Stl. Fighters gets new price of 160 shields. Costly, but anything less would make use of Stl. Bomber meaningless since Stl. Fighter has lethal bombard abilities.

Bombers get their range increased to 8. Large bombers usually have extra fuel tanks, which give them higher operational range. Also it should make modern ships an easier target (it would be a little more difficult to get out of their operational range in one turn). Should be not too much unbalancing since bombers have no lethal bombard turned on. Also lowers the need of relocating Bombers every time you conquer enemy border city.

Since Bombers now have operational range of 8, it would seam strange to leave Tactical Nukes with shorter range of 6. That's why I now increased bombard range of Tactical Nukes to 8 tiles.

Civilopedia says that Cruise Missiles can fly for thousand miles, so let it be reflected in the rules. They get bombard range of 4.

Helicopters can now transport 2 foot units. This makes Helicopter a more useful transport unit.


Ship tweaks:

Frigate gets attack AND bombard rating of 3, while Man-O-War gets attack AND bombard rating of 4. My reasoning was, that historicly, main difference between Ironclads and sailing ships was in ARMOR, and NOT in weapons. These changes reflect that. Ironclad has not much better offense, but has pretty good defense. With new stats Man-O-War becomes pretty interesting vessel. Has attack power of Ironclad (cannon heavy ship), while on the other hand is pretty vulnerable against Ironclads (and even Frigates).

Privateers get defense of 2, increased movement of 4 and lower cost of 50 shields. This will make them more useful to players. On the other hand it's not overpowering considering that Frigate has now both higher attack rating and very useful bombard ability.

Prerequisite tech for Ironclad unit is now Industrialization (instead of Steam Power). Also, Ironclads get cost of 90. This is done in order to prolong use of Frigates as "queen of seas". In original rules, Frigates were quickly made obsolete by Ironclads.

Late game naval units have increased movement by 1. This is done in order to make greater difference between speed of modern naval vessels and sailing ships. It should not be unbalancing since change is for just one movement point.

So Destroyers, Battleships, AEGIS Cruisers, Transports and Carriers get movement of 6. Subs get movement of 4, while Nuclear Subs get movement of 5. Note that now, since Carriers and Battleships are same-class ships, they get same movement rate of 6.

Submarines (nuclear version also) get attack of 10, to make them dangerous enough and force players to make their own submarines to detect enemy ones.

Also, Nuc. Submarines get reduced cost of 120 shields (was 140). Nuc. Submarines are better in every way, but not that much better to keep old price of 140 shields.

Battleship bombard capabilities are barely better compared to Destroyer (8 vs 6). So in order to fix that, Battleship gets bombard strength of 12. AEGIS Cruiser also gets higher bombard strength of 8.

Battleship gets higher cost of 220 shields. This is mostly done in order to make Destroyers more useful.

In order to make AEGIS Cruiser better at defense against bombers (that's the point of AEGIS), I increased their defense rating to 12. It's same defense as of Battleship, but since they are cheaper they become best in escort missions. Makes them more them more useful then simple submarine detectors. Destroyers still stay as main grunt force (cheap).


Basic unit stats:

Longbowmen gets reduced cost of 30 to make them more attractive compared to Knights. 40 cost was too much anyway (Immortals cost 30 and have attack of 4).

Gunpowder infantry units look too much weak on attack and too expensive for defense compared to cavalry or pre-gunpowder units.

Musketmen get 2/4/1 stats, cost 50 (lower cost)
Musketeer gets 4/4/1 stats, cost 50 (useful, finally)
Riflemen get 5/6/1 stats, cost 70
Infantry gets 8/10/1 stats, cost 90 (with old cost)

Reduced cost and higher attack makes these units more valuable.

Knight to Cavalry upgrade looks pretty cheap considering it's benefits (+50% to offense and movement for just 10-20gp). And its devastating if done early in rennaissance age. To make this a little bit more balanced I increased cost of Cavalry to 90 shields. Despite higher cost of Cavalry, Cossaks will keep their cost of 80 shields, since their higher defense is not much impressive on its own.

Marines and Paratroopers get some changes too:
Marines get 10/8/1 stats.
Paratroopers get 8/10/1 stats.

This makes these units more valuable and gives every of them special tactic. Paratrooper will invade and hold position, while Marines will assault. These units can be especially good in Jungles and Mountains, which wheeled units can't pass. And since in modern times Infantry gets obsolete these unit take role of jungle & mountain warriors. Someone could argue that Attack of 10 makes Marines capable of killing Tanks, but since smart players will stack tanks with Infantry support, that should not be problem.

Paratroopers also get operational range of 8. Real problem with these units was that it was difficult to land your units behind enemy lines, since they need to start from your cities. Hopefully this change will make them more strategicly useful.

Modern Armor gets defense of 14 to make Mech. Inf. more important.

Radar Artillery is mobile unit, so it gets movement of 2. Since Radar Artillery has movement of 2, it now needs Oil and Rubber (plus Aluminium).


Non-unit related changes:

In standard game Wealth is heavily underrated. Wealth income doubled (4 prod. to 1 gold before Economy, 2 to 1 after).

Taxmen and Scientist values increased to 2 points. Before, I hardly ever used them, since getting two shields is better then one taxmen (difference between getting 2 shields by mining and getting extra pop by irrigating). It's still not much, but higher values could be unbalancing in early game (and give graphic glitches).

Worker's "working speed bonus" in Communism is increased to +50%.
This is done because of flavor (Communism is "worker ideology") and to make Communism more distinctive from Monarchy. Also it gives Communism one unique bonus in peacetime.

Spy experience was changed to Veteran for all non-communist governments and to Elite for Communist government. That way, I've increased success chances for spying missions, which are by default low. Note that Diplomat experience is still Regular, so you'll have good reason to use Spy instead of Diplomat for Steal Tech mission.

Steal World Map mission is added to Diplomats. World Map is most useful in ancient era anyway.

Cost of Propaganda spying missions is HALVED. Propaganda becomes more viable option, but it still fails often against culturally superior civilizations (as it should). Democracy immunity becomes more important.

Attack bonus against barbarians is lowered too.

Why?

Since I don't think, that even novice player thinks it's fun to have his one lone warrior defeat 15 enemy horsemen. And that's something that can happen with anti-barbarian bonus of 800% at easiest difficulty.

Now, at Chieftain difficulty, bonus against barbarians is 200% (still good), at Warlord is 100%, at Regent and Monarch is 50%, and at Emperor and Deity difficulty there is no bonus at all.

Also, I made a small change in difficulty settings for effective number of optimal cities (used when calculating corruption). I raised number of optimal cities at lower difficulty levels, while keeping old numbers at higher levels. That way, I made game a little easier on corruption (but not too much) at lower difficulty levels.

So at Chieftain, optimal number is 150% of base number instead of 100%, at Warlord 120% instead of 95%, at Regent 100% instead of 90% and at Monarch level 90% instead of 85%. At Emperor and Deity levels optimal number is left unchanged (80% and 70% as before).


Wonder tweaks:

Military Academy small wonder doesn't need anymore a "victorious army" as prerequisite. This is done in order to make building of armies a better option. Since army cost is as high as of one Wonder building, making army by using leaders should still be useful.

Cure for Cancer's 1 happy face is useless in modern times when civs have 6+ luxuries. So upping Cure for Cancer effect to 3 HAPPY FACES will make it PREMIUM wonder, which it is supposed to be.

Since Longevity Wonder doesn't give proper benefits in modern age, I made it available with Sanitation (industrial age). Now it could give some good benefits, especially after Hospitals are built.


Space ship tweaks:

New costs for SS components are 250, 500 and 1000 shields (compared to old costs of 160, 320 and 640 shields). They will be aprox. 50% more expensive compared to original prices.
This is done, in order to prolong (and make more enjoyable) space race.

Life Support System needs Recycling.
Why? Just look civilopedia entry. It talks about recycling too much.

Docking Bay needs Robotic, since parts which needs to be transformed to Space Station (before landing to Alpha Centauri) needs ROBOTIC ARMS, also that could help when loading things from space station in earth orbit (all this is in civilopedia).

Statis Chamber should need Genetic.
Why? To discover cyrogenic, human race needs advanced biology understanding, including genetic.

With these changes only pure military techs are not needed for space ship, like Stealth, Integrated Defense or Smart Weapons.

This will make end game more interesting. Players will have time to use some more advanced techs before finishing space ship.


v1.03 was downloaded 90 times
v1.1 was downloaded 182 times
v1.11 was downloaded 13 times
v1.2 was downloaded 54 times
v1.22 was downloaded 38 times
v1.25 was downloaded 52 times
v1.26 was downloaded 33 times
v1.27 was downloaded 117 times
v1.3 was downloaded 16 times
v1.31 was downloaded 139 times
v1.32 was downloaded 57 times
v1.33 was downloaded 376 times
v1.34 was downloaded 35 times
v1.35 was downloaded 46 times
v1.36 was downloaded 10 times
v1.37 was downloaded 12 times
v1.38 was downloaded 6 times
v1.39 was downloaded 14 times
v1.4 was downloaded 24 times
v1.41 was downloaded 179 times
v1.42 was downloaded 354 times
v1.43 was downloaded 91 times
v1.44 was downloaded 204 times

[player1]

double post

[korn469]

player1

looks really good

one question though

Note: You can move those units on enemy roads, you just don't get road movment bonus.

have you tested this?
if it works i am definantly going to use this in my mod!

[player1]

Originally posted by korn469
player1

looks really good

one question though



have you tested this?
if it works i am definantly going to use this in my mod!

Yes, tested completly.

P.S.
Wow, allready in files section.
Not one hour has passed.

[korn469]

a couple more things

lower the number of cities required for an army to 3

instead of raising fighter and jet fighter RoF increase their bombardment strength and leave their RoF alone, a WW2 fighter like the mustang or the thunderbolt when they were strafing their targets were more accurate than a bomber so their bombard strength should be as high or higher than a bomber

same thing goes for jet fighter, except think laser guided bombs

other than making it so than a paratrooper's movement isn't used up by an airdrop (which you can't do with the editor, except if you increase its movement i think) your changes are exactly the same ones i'd make for a bare minimum conservative 1.18f patch

good job

[player1]

>>
lower the number of cities required for an army to 3
>>

I don't know abnout this. Wouldn't it make those players with milirary academy too powerfull compared to those without it? I never detected that as a problem and good MODers never chage things if they are not completrly sure that they are problem.


>>
instead of raising fighter and jet fighter RoF increase their bombardment strength and leave their RoF alone, a WW2 fighter like the mustang or the thunderbolt when they were strafing their targets were more accurate than a bomber so their bombard strength should be as high or higher than a bomber

same thing goes for jet fighter, except think laser guided bombs
>>

I more liked to keep flavor form original rules. Artillery has higher bombard, but lower ROF rating than air units. Anyway I don't want to confise novices (Why is fighter more powefull then bomber?)

Although, technicly I agree. But something like that is more for some sort of more radical MOD (not conservative patch suggestion mod).

>>
good job
>>

Thanks!

[player1]

Version 1.01 is out!

See top post for details.

[lockstep]

player1, your mod is likely to become the second one (after korn's awesome blitz mod) that I will try actually. I like the fact that you actually give reasonings for your changes, and Firaxis would do well to adopt a lot of them.

[player1]

Originally posted by lockstep
player1, your mod is likely to become the second one (after korn's awesome blitz mod) that I will try actually. I like the fact that you actually give reasonings for your changes, and Firaxis would do well to adopt a lot of them.

Thanks!

Also, try a Space Race.
I wanna see how much different is end game pace with 2.5 times more expensive space ship.

[player1]

Version 1.02 is out!

See top post for details.


P.S.
Sorry for too fast updates.
There were some things I forgot to fix.

[alexman]

More ideas for patch mod

Great changes! I already play with many of these myself.

A few more ideas for a bare-minimum mod for 1.17:

1) To fix extremely fast technology advancement (introduced by aggressive AI trading) that makes units obsolete too fast: Increase all research costs, including minimum and maximum turns, by 50%. I also like to increase middle ages technology costs by another 50% to reflect what actually happened during the middle ages, and to have a chance to fight some wars with those units. Another change I make is to increase the initial techs for each age by 100%. This way I get to use sailing ships before the ironclad comes along, for example. I find that these changes make the speed of progress go in good agreement with history (at least at Monarch level). These changes might conflict with your spaceship cost increases though, as people might not have time to build more expensive components before time runs out.

2) To fix useless Privateer: Make it available with astronomy, when it can be dangerous to caravels. Add the property of sinking in ocean though, so people don't go exploring the world with them. Not sure if this will conflict in gameplay with your change to the caravel defense rating.

3) To fix useless Longevity: Make it add some happy faces.

Not-so-bare-minimum change:

4) To eliminate huge stacks of bombard units: Increase their ROF and their cost.

[player1]

Re: More ideas for patch mod

Originally posted by alexman
Great changes! I already play with many of these myself.

A few more ideas for a bare-minimum mod for 1.17:

1) To fix extremely fast technology advancement (introduced by aggressive AI trading) that makes units obsolete too fast: Increase all research costs, including minimum and maximum turns, by 50%. I also like to increase middle ages technology costs by another 50% to reflect what actually happened during the middle ages, and to have a chance to fight some wars with those units. Another change I make is to increase the initial techs for each age by 100%. This way I get to use sailing ships before the ironclad comes along, for example. I find that these changes make the speed of progress go in good agreement with history (at least at Monarch level). These changes might conflict with your spaceship cost increases though, as people might not have time to build more expensive components before time runs out.

I agree that tech. progress is fast but it takes time to balance those chages myself, so I won't do it.
As you see I am making CONSERVATIVE MOD, which mean changing as little as possibile. The last thing I want is to make smoe mistake and get tech too slow for Space Race (maybe even for regular costs if not carefull).

The easiest way to decraese pace of game is to lower base tech cost in World Map menu in editor.

(do I sound a little like Firaxis: "If you don't like it chage it in editor")

2) To fix useless Privateer: Make it available with astronomy, when it can be dangerous to caravels. Add the property of sinking in ocean though, so people don't go exploring the world with them. Not sure if this will conflict in gameplay with your change to the caravel defense rating.

Don't know about it. I really haven planed to chage tech. prequisite for any unit. Only stats if necesarry.
And historically they came later.

Some people had luck with stacks of 4 Privateers.
Move them together with J. After enemy ships atatcks, try to sink it with remaining Privateers.

3) To fix useless Longevity: Make it add some happy faces.

Never really thinked about that. But if I give them happy faces wouldn't it be more powerfull then Cure for Cancer?

What about making conscripts with extra pop?
Or lower extra food values so cities grow slower, but you get extra production (by extra mining)?

4) To eliminate huge stacks of bombard units: Increase their ROF and their cost.

Interesting idea. But that means that they'll be shot down more often.
Maybe for some other MOD.

[lockstep]

Re: Re: More ideas for patch mod

Originally posted by player1
As you see I am making CONSERVATIVE MOD, which mean changing as little as possibile.

Amen to that. If a feature really needs to be fixed, fix it. If a feature is a matter of taste, leave it as it is.

[player1]

Re: Re: Re: More ideas for patch mod

Originally posted by lockstep
Amen to that. If a feature really needs to be fixed, fix it. If a feature is a matter of taste, leave it as it is.

That's the point.

I am trying to do something that is possibile to be accepted by Firaixs.

That means no extra unit graphic, SUPER-corruption solutions (give corth. effect to every building), no 10 hp for units, etc...

Small balance tweaks, that's all I am working.

I have mostly left untoched things which look to be corrected in further patches by hardcoding, like tech progress, maybe better corruption model etc...

[lockstep]

Re: Re: Re: Re: More ideas for patch mod

Originally posted by player1
I am trying to do something that is possibile to be accepted by Firaixs.

That means ... no 10 hp for units, etc...

Don't tell this to korn.