MOD: Patch suggestion MOD

[player1]

Originally posted by Caliban
What about giving the AEGIS Cruisers the ability to carry tactical missiles? That would really make them useful...

Interesting, although I don't know how would AI handle that, and it would need some cheating with units flag (adding foot type flag to Cr. Misssiles). And maybe it's a little bit out of vanilla Civ3 flavor.

Still nice idea. But I would probably not add it.
(also it raises question why other ships do not carry Missiles)

[player1]

I was just thinking about Cannons once agian.

And I think that maybe increasing ROF to 2 and giving them cost of 60 would be an OK idea.

Frigate to Cannon comparation should not realy be problematic, since with Cannon's cost of 60, it's assumed that it's much greater number of cannons then at Frigate. On the other hand Destoyer has also much lower bombard value then Artillery, and AEGIS Cruiser value is also probably lower them from RA too (while Battleship is much more expesive and is suppsed to be special case).

Should I do it?
(ROF=2 and cost of 60)



P.S.
By the way,
I would probably go with 12/12/6 AEGIS Cruiser.
Any one thinks it's OK?

[player1]

Originally posted by player1
And I think that maybe increasing ROF to 2 and giving them cost of 60 would be an OK idea.

It should also reduce unit micromanaging.

[lockstep]

for cost 60 / RoF 2 cannons, because it's a smoother transition from catapults to artillery IMO.

[player1]

Originally posted by lockstep
for cost 60 / RoF 2 cannons, because it's a smoother transition from catapults to artillery IMO.

And it would also give Bom. 12, ROF 2, cost 60 for Korean Cannons in PtW.
But that would be not unbalaning, since they would STILL have range of 1.

[player1]

By the way, I was also thinking about reducing Communism wokers bonus to +50% (from +100%) as in Democracy.

Since I looked on that as more flavor thing, and so maybe +100% is too much.

+50% is enough to reflect higher "public work" efficiency of Communism (in early post war periods).


P.S.
By the way, while I was looking that AU thread I got one idea about Communism (maybe too much radical for this MOD).

What would happed if you change pop-rush number from 20 to 30?

[Kloreep]

I haven't played in Communism a lot - not at all since the 100% worker rate - so I don't have an opinion.

If you could increase pop-rush shields for Communism only, I'd say go for it. But it might have drastic affects on Despotism; pop-rushing is still pretty good early game, and it was even better when the first one netted you 40 shields. If every single one gives 30, it would be a huge boost for despots, making food and luxuries even more important early-game factors than they are now.

Has this increase been play-tested much?

[player1]

Originally posted by Kloreep
Has this increase been play-tested much?

Actually it hasn't.
So that would be main reason I won't put it into MOD.

Although it would be good idea if it could have been Communism only (and then maybe even 40 shields pre pop would be ok).

[player1]

VERSION 1.37 is OUT!

Comments to changes in v1.37

Privateers get increased movement of 4 in order to become more competitive. Although they have price of 40 (compared to price of 60 for Frigates), it's not overpowering considering that Frigate has both higher defense rating and very useful bombard ability.

Submarines get upgraded to Nuc. Submarines. Also, Nuc. Submarines get reduced cost of 120 shields (was 140). Considering that Nuc. Submarines are better in every way, there are obvious reasons for new upgrade chain. Still not so better to keep old price of 140 shields.

In order to make AEGIS Cruiser better at defense against bombers (that's the point of AEGIS), I increased their defense rating to 12. It's same defense as of Battleship, but since they are cheaper they become best in escort missions. Still in order to not make them too much dominating, I reduced their attack to original value of 12 (was 14 before).

Cannons get ROF of 2, but their price increases to 60 shields (was 30). This will reduce some micromanagement and make use of Cannons an interesting choice.

Workers "working speed bonus" in Communism is lowered to +50% (was +100%).
Since "worker bonus" was added more because of flavor (Communism is "worker ideology") and to make Communism more distinctive from Monarchy, I though that +100% bonus is maybe just too much. Still it's higher then original settings, in which Communism had no bonus at all.

AI defense was flag removed from Bowmen. Simply put, it was not good idea from first place. Although it could look logical at first glance, since Bowmen has defense of 2, they also upgrade to Longbowmen, an unit with defense of 1. And that could give some bad results for AI.

[Gen.Dragolen]

player1,

I don't know how old you are, but in the "pure" communist regimes like in Mao's China, Stalin's Russia or Pol Pot's Cambodia, communism made a worker's paradise in the only manner possible for them: you were one of the slaves or one of the guards.

There were some books written in the late 70's or early 80's by a defector who was a high ranking officer in the GRU. He did a book each on the Red Army, the GRU and Spetsnaz. Among the topics he covered was why he joined: he had no Party connections so no bureacratic appointments were possible, and he didn't want to be in a farm commune or factory, so the Army it was.

Anyways, his books show how the KGB, Army and Party were balanced by each other as they all strived to gain an advantage over the other. And the Army did quite well as managers of the industries needed to support the war machine. It was the Party that couldn't make the workers who were relegated to producing consumer goods and food do enough work to make life bearable.

To that end, I think a Communist government should get the same production as a Despotic government, and many free units to make it like good old mother Russia. And worker speed bonus should actually be a 25% penalty. As a good example as to why, in Poland, 25% of the land was used by people to grow vegetables and stuff for themselves, while 75% of the land was in commune farms. The commune farms produced about 20% of the food grown in Poland, the rest from the private lands. This in part lead to the food riots in the early 80's.

Otherwise, I look forward to testing your latest version. I like what you did with the AEGIS cruisers in ADM and reasoning.

I'll let you know how it goes.


D.

[player1]

I don't think this belongs in this thread but yes, Communism in not in any way better then Monarchy (not Despotism, despostism is government with totaly retarded economy).
That's why it doesn't get a trade bonus like Republic or Democracy (which is indeed bit penality).

As for public labor (reflected by workers in civ), it was encourged in such contries. I remeber a tales of my own parents when they were woking in various "labor actions" in 60ties and 70ties. And I douibt that they got "paid" for such thing. It was a duty to perform in those days (and nobody realy complained about that). In fact, they have pretty good memories from those days.

On the other hand, Communism in Yugoslavia was pretty different from that in Russian or China. It used concepts of "public property" instead of "state property" and both communist and capitalist coutries were "frendly" (read: not hostile) towards Yugosalvia since it was on "borderline". That way, a lot of money came from westers states, which unfortunetly wasn't retuned yet today. So we since we eat out that money and lived relativly well, unit 80ties cames, when was a time to retun the debts. Then crisis came, and at the end (in 90ties) war and break up of Yugoslavia.

[player1]

VERSION 1.38 is OUT!

Comments to changes in v1.38

Jaguar Warriors get their old upgrade to Swordsmen restored. Since after patch 1.29f, you can still build unique units even after they should normally become obsolete. As byproduct of this, Aztecs can build Chariots again too (just if they wanna upgrade them to Horsemen).

Man-O-War gets defense of 3. They should be better then Frigate. But, with original stats, enemy could just bombard them and then sink with his own ships, making them in no way better them Frigate in defense. This should fix that. English UU was a little bit weak anyway.

Battleship gets higher cost of 240 shields. This is mostly done in order to balance out their good ROF, and price compared to Destroyer.

Bombers get their range increased to 8. Large bombers usually have extra fuel tanks, which give them higher operational range. Also it should make modern ships an easier target (it would be a little more difficult to get out of their operational range in one turn). Should be not too much unbalancing since bombers have no lethal bombard turned on. Also lowers the need of relocating Bombers every time you conquer enemy border city.

Number of extra happy faces gained with Longevity wonder is reduced to 1. Original change (2 happy faces) made that wonder just to much happiness oriented and made their primary role look a little bit unimportant. With this change, you should build Longevity if you really need it for growth, not just to take out unhappiness.


Also first PtW version is released too!
Look for thread in creaton forum (until it gets moved to files forums).

[alexman]

Player 1, good job on continuing to balance your mod and come up with new ideas at the same time.

Originally posted by player1
Since after patch 1.29f, you can still build unique units even after they should normally become obsolete.

Just FYI, this true only if you haven't had your Golden Age yet.

[player1]

Originally posted by alexman
Player 1, good job on continuing to balance your mod and come up with new ideas at the same time.

Just FYI, this true only if you haven't had your Golden Age yet.

Interesting.
So after you trigger GA it's ower.

Hmm... That could make someprobelm with some new PtW (and some old non-ptw) UU.

Still, I won't tweak upgrade paths anymore, since that would probably not fix all those UUs, and could make new problems too.

[player1]

One small update (v1.39)

Comments to changes in v1.39

Explorers defense changed back to 0. This is done mainly because I think that previous change was unnecessary. Since, for their cost of just 20 shields, they do scout and pillage missions 6 tiles deep in enemy territory. Making them have defense of 1 (and thus ability to retreat) would just make them too much powerful.