MOD: Patch suggestion MOD

[Fidel]

that suggestion about making spaceship even more expensive

[player1]

Originally posted by LaRusso
that suggestion about making spaceship even more expensive

Hmm, when I had SS costs 2.5 times more expenisve AI didn't even tried to build them.
SS victory was easy.

But maybe someting like 250, 500, 1000 could work?
(aprox. +50% cost)

Could somebody test this since I don't have enough time to try this myself?

[player1]

Originally posted by chiefpaco
1 question. How do you use Bowmen, strategically? I just wondered if most people build bowmen rather than spearmen, cause that's what I do. I wondered if it would be right to somehow take spearmen out of the Babylonian AI's queue. In my last game, I saw Babylon invade with Bowmen & spearmen & I thought it was a bit strange...

Know what I mean? Or do people build spearmen too cause they upgrade to pikemen?

Normally, some people go for Spearmen because they upgrade to Pikemen.
But, since this MOD upgrades Longbowmen to Riflemen, maybe having Bowmen defenders could be a good idea.

I think that AI will also use bowmen defensively in 1.21f patch, since they have selected both Offense and Defense AI flags. Same for Legions.

[alexman]

Taking bowmen out of the queue would be a good thing, except what if someone doesn't want to use bowmen to avoid triggering a Golden Age early?

[lockstep]

Re: MOD: Patch suggestion MOD

Originally posted by player1
In standard game Wealth is heavily underrated. Wealth income doubled (4 prod. to 1 gold before ecomony, 2 to 1 after).

I didn't notice this change until now, and would like to know why you think wealth is underrated that much.

[lockstep]

Re: MOD: Patch suggestion MOD

Originally posted by player1
Life Support System needs Recycling.
Why? Just look civilopedia entry. It talks about recycling too much.

Docking Bay needs Robotic. Part which needs to be transformed to Space Station (before landing to Alpha Centauri) needs ROBOTIC ARMS, also that could help when loading things from space station in earth orbit (all this is in civilopedia).

Statis Champer should need Genetic.
Why? To discover cyrogenic, human race needs advanced biology understanding, including genetic.

With these chages only pure military techs are not needed for SS like Stealth, Integrated Defense or Smart Weapons.

While I completely agree with you regarding Recycling and Genetics being Spaceship prereqs, I'd suggest to drop Robotics for gameplay reasons. It should be a tough choice for the player to forgo Robotics - and therefore manufacturing plants which could speed up construction of at least some SS parts.

[player1]

Wealth is useless in pre-economy era, sine it gives one gold for 8 shields.
(1 for 4 in this MOD). Most ancient cities don't even have 8 shields.

Although new settings give 1 for 2 (was 1 for 4) in modern and industial era, this actually makes wealth usefull alternative to building units after all building are built.

Strategic choice (after most building are built): units or wealth

Rememer that in Civ2 is was one for one.

And I don't think that wealth needs to be placeholder, until you get new building tech.



As for Robotics, in stadard game I usuly don't even research Robortic while building spaceship.

Remember that if you don't need Robotic, you also won't need minaturization.
And if I have to choose between these 2 techs or some which gives SS parts, I would NOT research those 2 techs.

[lockstep]

Originally posted by player1
Wealth is useless in pre-economy era, sine it gives one gold for 8 shields.
(1 for 4 in this MOD). Most ancient cities don't even have 8 shields.

AFAIK, wealth is rounded up, so you would get at least 1 gold even if you don't have 8 shields.

Rememer that in Civ2 is was one for one.

I can't remember how it was in Civ2. Obviously, you have a point here.

Remember that if you don't need Robotic, you also won't need minaturization.
And if I have to choose between these 2 techs or some which gives SS parts, I would NOT research those 2 techs.

Unless you also changed the tech tree, you WILL need miniaturization because it is the prereq for genetics.

[player1]

Originally posted by lockstep
AFAIK, wealth is rounded up, so you would get at least 1 gold even if you don't have 8 shields.

Yes, that true.
By making this change you'll get 2 gold for 8 shields.
Not realy much, but anything higher would be unbalancing in modern are.

This way with 2 for 1 in modern you could get a lot of gold form 60+ shield city, but you'll have less Tanks, which woud counterbalance that.

Unless you also changed the tech tree, you WILL need miniaturization because it is the prereq for genetics.

You are right about this one.
But most of expensive SS parts techs are discovered early.

So removeing Docking Bays form Robotic won't make though choice.

Most expenisve parts would probaly be completed before that.


Hmm, it would be interesting to forget about Sythetic and Space Fligh and go straight for Robotics.

[player1]

one minor update

Version 1.22 is OUT!
Download form first page of this thread.


Changes in ver 1.22

After some playtesting I concluded that 50% cost for steal tech spy mission is just too low.
So I upped it to 70%. It's still more usefull to "safely" steal tech then buy, if only one civ has that tech. Usefullness increases in industrial and modern age, when this option is usefull even when 2 or 3 civs have that tech.

[lockstep]

Re: one minor update

Originally posted by player1
After some playtesting I concluded that 50% cost for steal tech spy mission is just too low.
So I upped it to 70%.

So tech stealing is useful after all? And how about the other spy missions?

[player1]

Re: Re: one minor update

Originally posted by lockstep
So tech stealing is useful after all? And how about the other spy missions?

Propagada cost is Halved.

Other mission are usefull as they are. (I used them before)
Maybe not steal map. But, it's rely not importatnt.

Steal plans is a great thing.
Althouigh is could be costly.

[=DrJambo=]

player1, what are your actual values for all the Espionage missions?

I had steal plans at 2 (20%) and that is definitely too low since all you have to do is go 100% money and just safely steal tech all the time.

I have steal plans at 20% too.

The rest don't seem so important.

[=DrJambo=]

double post sorry

[player1]

Steal plans or steal tech?

Steal plans I left with defualt values.
This order is very important in waging war, so I haven't made it cheaper.
It still does pay off when planning attacks on small nations (small cost).
As for larger nations, maybe using recon air missions is a better idea (and spy city too).



Steal tech is at 7 = 70% of original.

From my analysis:

at start of the medivial era:
Safe steal tech = buying tech form only nation which has that tech (no devaluation). Doesn't pay of if more then one nation have that tech.

in the middle of industrial era:
Safe steal tech = buying tech form one of only TWO nations which have that tech (devaluation included). So it pays off when one (a lot) or two nations have that tech. Maybe even if 3 nations have it if some less safe method is used.

in the modern era:
even more beneficial

Anyway in more modern ages tech steal becomes more important.
And it pays of a lot if only one civ has needed tech (you save a lot).


SAFE steal is realy a safe steal (very low chance of failure, if ANY), but trick is too have enough of NET GOLD, not gold per turn (which counterbalances this nicely.


Propaganda has HALVED cost.

Other missions are unchanged.