MOD: korn's Blitz Mod

[lockstep]

Originally posted by korn469
hmmm i'm trying to think what would cause it to crash as soon as you enter the modern era...there isn't any tweaks i can think of that should have made it particularly unstable, but i will go back and recheck everything just to make sure, usually it is one thing that the game doesn't like

here are a few examples of that

*assigning the specialists a tech
*forgetting to include a leader name with fascism
*not including the extra unit folder

Just a note while I´m compiling my list of interesting mod proposals: From a test run, it seems that civ3 is able to handle scientists and taxmen that are assigned to a tech. Only entertainers must be available at the beginning - else, you won't be able to change citizens to specialists at all and the game will crash if you tell your domestic advisor to 'give the people some happiness' in a city with civil disorder.

[korn469]

TechWins

You may not agree with the changes I will suggest for terrain, but I honestly believe that they might seriously help decrease micromanagement

i will think about the implications of your changes, however i do not think that micromanagement is civ3's problem, instead it is the closely related problem of tedium, which comes from a lack of interesting choices, the players are then forced to make the same choice over and over again which is boring, so i'm afraid that further decreasing choices would increase tedium

what i am going to do though is change tundra from 1.0.0 to 0.1.0 like deserts, and i might also increase its movement to 2 but i'm not sure about that, also i am thinking of tweaking jungles but i'm not sure to what

i read nato's plan for getting rid of micromanagement, and taking that idea along with yours here is an idea

max out all of the stats for each terrain type then set tile improvments all to zero, so the only thing that workers could do would be to build roads, railroads, forts, plant/clear forrest/jungle

if the editor had a tile penalty value instead of a standard tile penalty checkbox this would work perfectly, as it is either republic/monarchy would be a tough call

what are your thoughts on that idea? this would certainly decrease micromanagement without completely making the worker obsolete, but it would take away part of the reason to play civ

OneFootInTheGrave

glad you approve!

lockstep

i see, well what i'm thinking of is making the scientist and tax collector each generate 2 of their respected resource

so any thoughts on ideas from other mods that might fit in with the blitz mod?

[lockstep]

At the moment, I'm not ready to talk about detailed stats. However, here's my updated general list for 'smoothing out the basic game':

Ideas I agree with that are already part of the blitz mod:

• Broader range of buildings (e.g. mill, stock exchange);
• 'Culture-only'-buildings (e.g. theater, museum);
• Government Fascism (trade bonus, no war weariness, nuisance corruption);
• Raised unit support cost for some governments;
• Generous 'turns per tech' limits;
• Increased numbers of hitpoints;
• Increased A/D ratings for industrial and modern units;
• Increased movement rates of naval units;
• Possibility to build armies (not to rush wonders) without a leader;
• Ability to upgrade for units like swordsman, longbowman, cavalry etc.;
• Tweaked stats for marines, paratroopers and nuclear weapons;
• Foot units with hidden nationality (partisan);
• Increased chances for air superiority missions.

Interesting ideas from other mods:

• Increased number of optimal cities;
• More productive scientists/taxmen, possibly assigned to techs;
• Reduced costs for espionage missions;
• Preliminary discovery of strategic ressources (e.g. uranium available with atomic theory);
• Tweaked tech requirements, especially for wonders (e.g. Longevity available with Medicine);
• Tweaked ressource requirements (e.g. infantry doesn't need rubber);
• Jungles producing +1 shield;
• Fruits/Oasis back as bonus ressources of jungles/deserts;
• Coracle added (0/1/2 sea unit, carries 1 foot unit, no prereq);
• Different barbarian units (e.g. privateer replaces galley);
• Reduced combat bonus against barbarians.

'Radical' or somewhat problematic ideas that you may nevertheless want to test:

• Government Theocracy (50% science cap) (possibly unbalanced and/or no interesting choice);
• Government-specific wonders (effects of tactical government switching unsettled);
• No mines on grassland (the AI possibly cannot handle this);
• Bonus ressources assigned to new techs (e.g. cattle, wheat) (potentially a great idea, but needs to be tested);
• 0/0/2 settler for expansionist civs (needs to be tested);
• 'Zero-ressource'-units with higher shield costs (e.g. light cavalry) (effects on upgrading unsettled).

Regarding nato's plan: We'd 'only' need additional bonus ressources that can be attached to every tile of the same type and can coexist with existing ressources (i.e. two ressources on the same tile). If this can be done, attach the new ressources to new techs and leave them invisible. But you're right, it would take away part of the reason to play civ.

[korn469]

lockstep

here is my first reactions to your proposals

*increased city limit --> quite likely
*better scientist/taxmen --> definantly
*reduced cost for spy missions --> 25% decrease already in beta3
*Preliminary discovery of strategic ressources --> what need does this fill?
*Tweaked tech requirements --> certianly a future possibility
*Tweaked ressource requirements --> already have made certain resource tweaks, open to more
*Jungles producing +1 shield --> i'll look into it
*Fruits/Oasis back as bonus ressource --> sounds good
*Coracle added --> i don't see the need for this
*Different barbarian units --> already in beta3
*Reduced combat bonus against barbarians --> sounds good
*Government Theocracy --> how about i tweak confederation?
*Government-specific wonders --> certainly a future possibility
*No mines on grassland --> maybe, but i think it could make terraforming more tedius
*Bonus ressources assigned to new techs --> a future possibility
*0/0/2 settler for expansionist civs --> what need does this fill?
*'Zero-ressource'-units with higher shield costs --> maybe at a future date, but this idea would be very time consuming to implement with little positive benefits, i've increased resources by about 25% in beta3...it would be easier to just remove resources instead of implement this

[lockstep]

Originally posted by korn469
*Preliminary discovery of strategic ressources --> what need does this fill?

As uranium is a) rather rare b) required for a space victory, I'd like to know before the end game where it is situated. In case I've got none in my territory and no one is willing to trade it to me, I can prepare for war (not just gearing up my production, but also forging long-time alliances). And Atomic Theory sounds like a reasonable tech to discover the importance of uranium. (On second thought, this tweak may be just my personal preference.)

*Jungles producing +1 shield --> i'll look into it
*Fruits/Oasis back as bonus ressource --> sounds good

These two changes together should re-balance the different terrain types a la civ2. +1 shield for jungles is a compensation for the associated risk of disease.

*Coracle added --> i don't see the need for this

Opens the possibility to explore faster in coastal areas and to settle nearby islands. Could be really helpful on archipelago maps when Map Making is up to 4 techs away. (Okay, coracles are not a must, but compared to pre-patch privateers they rock.)

*Government Theocracy --> how about i tweak confederation?

I'm not sure what your vision behind the Confederation government is, but I view it as decentralized. A Theocracy is rather the opposite. (Note: the whole government system of civ3 needs to be tweaked - I'd be already happy with 6 balanced governments in v1.06 of your mod. And Fascism is more important than Confederation and Theocracy IMO.)

*No mines on grassland --> maybe, but i think it could make terraforming more tedius

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear: Just leave it as it is now; else the AI will probably be crippled.

*0/0/2 settler for expansionist civs --> what need does this fill?

Expansionist is regarded as the weakest CSA so far. The ability to claim the best city sites in the early game could be helpful.

*'Zero-ressource'-units with higher shield costs --> maybe at a future date, but this idea would be very time consuming to implement with little positive benefits, i've increased resources by about 25% in beta3...it would be easier to just remove resources instead of implement this

As I said, a radical and somewhat problematic idea. And yes, it could make the whole ressource feature rather pointless. I just mentioned it for the sake of completeness.

I'm pleased to read that some of my suggestions have already made it in the v1.06 beta (again, a readme.txt would be helpful ). I probably won't be able to join these forums actively for a few days, but will try to deliver some beta-testing reports and additional comments regarding tech requirements till the end of the week. I also offer to assist you on tweaking government and building stats, but this will have to wait till v1.07.

[korn469]

just a quick request, all of those who are beta testing as soon as you reach the industrial era could you please post a save game so others can jump right in to the meat of the changes

also MAD PROPS to herdie! he redid the units_32.pcx file so the missing units from the build que should be a thing of the past!

backup and then replace the normal units_32.pcx file in your civ3\art\units folder with this new one

lockstep

As uranium is a) rather rare b) required for a space victory, I'd like to know before the end game where it is situated. In case I've got none in my territory and no one is willing to trade it to me, I can prepare for war (not just gearing up my production, but also forging long-time alliances). And Atomic Theory sounds like a reasonable tech to discover the importance of uranium.

hmmm ok, i sounds good for uranium at least

[korn469]

sorry i forgot to include the art!
anyways here it is

[korn469]

hmmm i'm getting a strange set of illegal operation crashes, when i move down onto a hill it will give me an illegal operation crash, anyone else experiencing this?

and any thoughts on what could be causing it?
(i'm still in the ancient era, early in the game)

[TechWins]

Korn, if you look back on Page 6 or 5 you will notice that I reported early game crashes, as well. Now that I think about it the game might just have crashed when I did go onto a hill, but I'm not positive. It seemed as if it were occurring shortly after I built a city, though. I should note that I was using one of your earlier beta versions for v1.06 and I made a few changes to it, as well. I hope you are able to target the problems and fix them because I like what you have done with v1.06.

[korn469]

TechWins

i'm glad that you are enjoying it!
so far i have had this crash twice, its early game the first crash was when i moved a warrior down onto a hill that had a friendly barbarian hut on it, the second crash was when i moved an archer down onto a hill that didn't have anything on it

i'm not exactly sure what would cause this crash, though i will continue to investigate

[korn469]

ok i am continuously getting the following crash

CIVILIZATION3 caused an invalid page fault in
module CIVILIZATION3.EXE at 016f:0040309c.
Registers:
EAX=00000000 CS=016f EIP=0040309c EFLGS=00010246
EBX=0bc4bc90 SS=0177 ESP=00abf4f0 EBP=00629c54
ECX=0000001c DS=0177 ESI=0bc4bdfc FS=6b5f
EDX=00000000 ES=0177 EDI=00000280 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
8b 48 04 85 c9 74 0e 8b 11 6a 40 8d 44 24 0c 6a
Stack dump:
00000280 ffffff00 00000000 6bed67b5 016acdcc 83df047c 0ad6fe50 00555013 00abf528 00000000 00000100 0bc4be54 83df047c cbcdcd00 bfffd4d6 a6a8ffbd

anyone else getting this? anyone else in general having lots of crashes?

[korn469]

ok some experimenting gave me this error

CIVILIZATION3 caused an invalid page fault in
module CIVILIZATION3.EXE at 016f:0040309c.
Registers:
EAX=00000000 CS=016f EIP=0040309c EFLGS=00010206
EBX=016674b0 SS=0177 ESP=00abf438 EBP=00629c48
ECX=0000001c DS=0177 ESI=0166761c FS=6a1f
EDX=00000189 ES=0177 EDI=00000220 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
8b 48 04 85 c9 74 0e 8b 11 6a 40 8d 44 24 0c 6a
Stack dump:
00000220 ffffffc0 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 0000e208 000001a4

hmmmm so i think i found the error, just a question...has anyone else experianced barbarians without problem?
if not then i found and corrected it

[korn469]

ok just posted beta4 it should resolve some of the early game crashes

[TechWins]

I have a question, what exactly are those pictures of the units going to be used for? Are you going to eventually implement them into your mod, is that it?

Also:

-Jungle, Tundra, Forest, and Mountains should have their road bonus discarded.

-You should make mountains have a +3 mining bonus instead of a 2.

-To be able to mine one should have to discover Iron Working first.

-Communism, the gov, shouldn't come towards the beginning of the Industrial era (IIRC) yet it should come more towards the middle to end of the Industrial era.

-Democracy should also come a bit later in the game, possibly somewhere in the early to mid part of the Industrial era.

-Sanitation should be completely discarded as a technology and all items that currently fall under sanitation would just go to Medicine.

-Democracy, Communism, and Facism should all cost 150 to research and Monarchy should only cost 20 to research.

-Monarchy should have have 3draft/4police, Facism should have 4draft/4police (stay the same), and Communism should have 5draft/7police.

I suggested all of those gov. and technology changes in order for Monarchy to be a more attractive gov. The most attractive feature migth be the fact that it can eventually support 8 units per city, but it can't reach that goal until Hospitals are discivered. However, how long it takes you to discover those you would be more inclined to just go for the already present govs that are better (democ, comm, facism).

Sorry but I haven't got to try out v1.06beta4 yet.

[lockstep]

Hi Korn,

I started a game with the v1.06 beta and encountered something strange: The forum, which I always understood as the first of three 'culture-only'-buildings, provides 2 happy faces in the city. It's like a colloseum, only cheaper. You didn't mean it that way, did you? (As it is now, happiness won't become an issue for quite some time.)

I'm tempted to reset the forum to 0 happy faces for myself, but would like to hear your response. (BTW, why not make Philosophy a prerequisite for forums? Sounds good and diminishes the number of techs that do nothing.)