MAP: Improved Huge Map of Earth

[satyajedi]

Those of you who downlaoded 2.0; I accidentally uploaded not 2.0, but an incomplete earlier version that was without a few last second adjustments. So, I just fixed the mistake with version 2.01. So... that's the one you want. Sorry about the confusion.

I have now uploaded Version 2.0. It contains many of the changes that people have suggested, as well as much of the changes of Alexandre's version 1.1.

Changes from 1.0:

- Coastline: Canada, including Newfoundland and such Canadian islands, is muh improved. Siberia is much more well defined. Scandanavia has warmed up quite a bit, while Greenland has become colder. Iceland is more substantial. Iberia is accurately done (by a native :-)) (thanks to Alexandre for all these improvements). Also, the agriculture in Russia and Easturn Europe has gotten poorer, to be both more historically accurate and to counterbalance Russia's resource strength. Perhaps the most important change, though, is to correct the mistake in which it was possible for a galley or caravel to travel from the west coast of Africa to the Carribean, allowing for horribly easy connection betwen the Americas and Europe. In order to fix this mistake, unfortunately, both the West African and Brazilian coast had to be scaled back, however, both look solid still and this should no longer be a factor.

[Changes from version 1.1: call it bias (being a Southern Italian), but I restored Sicily to it's size from 1.0 and it's connection to Italy. Also, I restored the desert in Egypt, Babylon and Mesoamerica: Alexandre, you need to try playing there, deserts with rivers flowing through them provide *very* good places to create cities (flood plains)].

- Resoures have been entirely and systematically redistributed. In addition to incorporating the comments above, I felt in gameplay that too many resources were availible to too many civilizations, making individual resources of little importance, and not getting into the really interesting things that happen in a world of limited resources. There are now less than 16 of each resource, with some luxery resources numbering as few as 8.

The resources are distributed as follows, with major producers in caps;

Wine: FRANCE, Crete, Spain, Austrailia, Chile, United States (California), Italy (with all respect to Gewertztraimier, Germany was left off )
Aluminum: AUSTRALIA, UNITED STATES, Russia, South America, Asia Minor, Greece, North Africa
Iron: UNITED STATES (industrial belt region), GERMANY, England, Ukraine, Egypt, India, Italy, Spain, Quebec, Japan
Horses: SPAIN, ASIA MINOR, Scandenavia, Poland, Germany, China, North Africa (Greece was left off b/c my understanding is they imported Persian horses from Asia Minor)
Coal: ENGLAND, UNITED STATES (industrial belt region), Poland, Quebec, India
Ivory: SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA, SRI LANKA / INDIA, Iceland, Siberia
Fur: RUSSIA, UNITED STATES (northeast / New England), Quebec, Siberia / East Russia
Uranium: SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA, SOUTH AMERICA, Russia, Austrailia (this is very limited, and unless you are Russia or Zulu, it will require an aggressive colonial power)
Silk: CHINA, SOUTHEAST ASIA, Japan
Insence: INDIA, China, Central Asia, Japan
Rubber; AUSTRAILIA, SOUTEAST ASIA, SOUTH AMERICA, Siberia, China (like uranium, this will be a very important inclination in the modern period for European nations to colonize!)
Oil: MIDEAST, Siberia, Alaska, Venezuela, United States (Texas), Malaysia (about half is in the MidEast)
Spice; INDIA, SOUTHEAST ASIA, South America
Gems; SUB SAHARAN AFRICA, SOUTH AMERICA, United States (West Coast), India, Austrailia
Dye: SOUTH AMERICA, Austrailia, Mideast
Saltpeter; CHINA, ASIA MINOR, Greece, Spain, Japan, Poland, United States (Southwest). (I really wasn't sure how to evaluate Saltpeter, so in part I gave a lot to Asia minor on two justifications; one, it was a Turkish Sultan who first used gunpowder for military purposes so there must be saltpeter there, and two, because Persia really needs the help)

After this process was complete, I then tried to update the gameplay further by trying to give a boost towards civilizations that got the shaft in starting space. India and had several of it's cattle and wheat taken away, and both will face a world with many barbarians and few goody huts. Europe has become quite a haven for fishing and whaling, as civilizations vy for space to exist. Other than Persia still probably having a big shaft, I'm not entirely sure at this point who is best off, which I think is good, but we definately need further playtesting.

Again, thank you all *very* much for your comments and keep the criticism coming!

-Satya

[Depp]

Im just wondering, why does the civs start on their real world location ????


And by the way, havn't tried your map yet, but scandinavia should have tons of Iron. We have supplied metals for europe for so long now...

[Gods Pet Monkey]

First of all, I have to say its an impressive map, and it looks quite good, but I haven’t had much time to play it yet.

It seems that you are aiming for a geographically (for both features and resources) correct world, which is something that should be achieved, with out ruining game play.

Anyway, I’m from Australia, and, really, the map that you used (if any) must be by a blind man who lives in Greenland. Your representation of Australia is terrible (mind you, the fraxian version wasn’t much better.

If i may draw your attention to several things, and hopefully you will fix up the Australasian region with your next release.

Firstly, there is no, NO, jungle in Tasmania (that island of the south-eastern tip for those who don’t know). In fact, its a temperate region, much like northern Europe, and can get quite cold. Some forest (not pine) would be a good idea.
On the subject of forests, I see you put plains in Cape York (I sure as hell hope you know something about the geographic structure of Australia) which is the north-western peninsula. Plains? the area is (well, was mostly before colonisation) covered with Rain Forest, consider it less dense jungle, and should thus be covered by the jungle tile. I have never seen a plain in that part of Australia.

Moving right along, that mountain range (mountains for us, really, there are very few mountains, just really tall hills by European standards) near the east coast is named the Great Dividing Range, and really, it separates the east coast from the interior of the continent. The real surprise is that you put JUNGLE west of the Great Dividing Range, when actually its plains that slowly transforms into Desert. This area is where a lot of our non-mined resources come from (I don’t know a better way to put that). Items like wool and some live stock come from there, and I’m sure most nations have products made from Australian wool (although I believe our Beef is more popular).

Heading further west, we find mountains... WTH? that should be desert! Sure, Ayres Rock is in the middle somewhere there, but it isn't THAT big! What’s more, I notice you places uranium in the mountains, and yes, Australia has a lot of that wondrous glowing metal, but its actually mined from forests/rainforests in the northern regions (and has upset a lot of native Aboriginals). Its most definitely NOT found in our desert interior, which have sprung mountains .

Heading further west, in to the region called Western Australia (they really thought about that name didn’t they?) you seem to get more accurate.

Ill leave Australia there, and head onto New Zealand. Now, I don’t live in New Zealand (and for you Americans out there, we treat NZ like you treat Canada, and vice versa) but I do know that the southern island is covered in mountains, not hills, some very tall mountains in NZ.


Finally, I would like to talk about resources in Australia. We provide a lot of resources to the world out there, and have copious amounts of pretty much everything. We have a lot of coal (mainly used for domestic purposes though), we provide a huge amount of Uranium, are quite abundant in Gold (which doesn’t seem to feature on your map at all! In fact our gold rush was nearly as big as the USAs, and nearly triggered a minor revolution!) We also have a lot of Aluminum (as I can see you represented), iron (as well as other metals), some saltpeter, rubber, and a lot of oil. On the note of Oil, I have to say most of it is actually off shore, in our territorial waters (which our government likes to defend against leaky fishing boats with naval ships), but I believe this Oil should be represented somewhere inland.

The second part of resources is more justification then anything else. Why should Australia have a lot more in such a small area.
1) Because its geographically correct
2) If it hasn’t got anything, your not going to colonise it are you?
The second one is particularly correct. You made the made with no one starting in Australia to encourage colonisation (as it was colonised in the late 1700s, and early 1800s). If you cant get that precious resource from Europe/America, go out and colonise Australia. This is even more important as the AI is expansion-happy, and by the time you can reach the Americas, they probably have South America fully under their belt, so its either conquest, or go home. I noticed (on another Real World map) that the AI doesn’t reach Australia until late Feudal, early Industrial ages, and by then, they have slowed down in their expansion, and you can keep pace with them, thus making Australia a essential part of ones empire if you wish to be self sufficient enough to wage war with who ever you wish (which is a nice thing).


Bah, enough on my home country. I notice that you kept Europe (more specifically Greece was mentioned) disconnected from Asia Minor. Just a sec! wasn’t Constantinople (now know as Istanbul) built in the NARROW join between the European and the Arabic world? Thus putting it in an excellent position for trade, seeing a lot of the items that drifted to Asia Minor from East Asia by trade routes passed across that narrow section of land (and a small channel). Just think that should be added, as it is geographically correct.

Lastly, if you want, I can edit a copy of your map so Australia is as it should be, you can of course, edit it afterwards to balance it out if so needed, just I think it might be best if it at least looks correct
If you’re interested in that, drop me an e-mail, roehr@bigpond.net.au

Gods Pet Monkey
"Where evolution fails, creation takes over"

[Alexandre Madeira]

satyajedi, I see you kept most of my terrain changes and improved on them, cool. A few comments:

Didnt know about the desert and river thing , but notice the river in egypt doesnt reach the ocean, it just loops or whatever, hehe, you have to delete part of it next to the coast so it looks like a river
Good work on Sicily.
North africa, are you sure its grasslands? I changed it to plains along with southern italy and sicily to reflect the mediterranean climate, but im not sure thats accurate. Still, north africa? If the south of the iberic peninsula is mostly arid, is north africa better?
About oil, you got the right island for Malasia? Asking, not sure myself, hehe.
I got this old Microprose game, Command HQ, it has some oil fields around the world, think they wouldnt put them there if they werent real, there are 2 in russia, one in north africa near that horse, another more to the south near that elephant and barbarian camp, one in venesuela, one in canada and another in mexico. The one in australasia is definitly not in that island

I'll just make my changes and post em here, leave Australia to you

[Pyrodrew]

GodsPetMonkey - Make the changes to Australia then post it here. Australia desperately needs it.

Satyajedi - On a random Huge map I just pulled up it had 22 irons. Why there is still fights & battles from 22 irons is because many of these irons are placed in clumps and 2nd most AIs & people don't want to give their competition iron (3,2,1Swordsmen). Thus, the earlier resources (iron & horses) could be raised & still have chaos in the beginning... then as time goes on the later resources could become harder to find (20 iron, 16 saltpeter, 14 aluminum, 12 coal, 10 rubber, etc.). Very few resources in the beginning could lead to 1 civ getting a huge drastic lead over the others early on.

Oh, and Hawaii should have atleast 1 jungle tile - pineapples & coconuts don't grow in grasslands.

[Alexandre Madeira]

Huh, wait a minute, I just noticed we can have Oil in coastal terrain, is this true in the original version or was it a change in the mod i downloaded the other day?

Anyway, I think its cool, since there are many oil platforms at sea around the world.

Now, who knows their locations, at least the big ones?

[Alexandre Madeira]

Hmm, no, it came with Anunikoba's Pre patch mod 1.6. But it cant be used as a strategic resource cause we cant build a road to it, lol, then i guess there's no use to it, unless Firaxis makes it work providing a city in range has an oil platform improvement, is there one in civ3?

Great idea actually, dont you think? Firaxis, you listening?

[satyajedi]

God's pet monkey -

lol, yep, I had no knowledge at all of Austrailian topography, so that was indeed more or less random. Sorry for the travesty to your continent . A redone Austrailia by a native would be much appreciated!

[On the subject of resources, I had considered Austrailia a hot colonial commodity as is -- it is the largest producer of aluminum, and a significant producers of two of the most important late game and extremely rare commodities, rubber and uranium (to get either, you essentially have to colonize or trade with someone who colonized), not to mention wine, dye and gems. Still, if you think it needs more, go for it, keeping in mind issues of resource balance]

Alexandre-

thanks for your continued help . Yep, that is Malaysia (home of the world's talest building!)

Re: North Africa, To be honest, decision between grassland and plains often in my mind come down to gameplay, and I think I made North Africa grassland because I wanted to make it an attactive area for Egypt & European powers to battle over. However, you are probably right that it isn't *that* hot agriculturally, and it is probably attractive enough anyway.

Pyrodew-

that's a good point, I'll look into bringing that into the map.

-Satya

[satyajedi]

What would be neat, is if they thought to make oil resources on coastal squares availible if a nearby city builds an offshore platform. But I suspect that isn't what is happening.

[Alexandre Madeira]

Or, offshore platform requiring an oil resource at sea inside the city radios in order to be built. No oil, no offshore platform in the build list.

Ok, I've updated the map with the changes to north africa, also, take a look at the North America west coast, I added a small river in the San Francisco area and added the Vancouver Island. Is it ok?

Also, is southern italy and sicily really green fields?

Here's my updated map.

[alph0ns3]

I think i fixed up Quebec...
Added gold and aluminium, moved iron to Labrador and added more grasslands around the St Lawrence and forest to the north.

[Pyrodrew]

http://www.theodora.com/new/world_maps.html

The above link shows world maps. In particular it show islands north of Scandinavia & Russia.

[Gods Pet Monkey]

2 new versions already, and by different people

I’ll continue on from these 2 guys work, unless you want otherwise. I would suggest that when I’m done, you edit the resources to your liking, seeing as you made the map, you probably have a far better idea on how much of each resource there is, and where it is. I don’t want to flood the market with aluminum

God's Pet Monkey
"Where evolution fails, creation takes over"

[RobRoy]

Originally posted by Gods Pet Monkey
2 new versions already, and by different people

I'd volunteer to help, but it looks like there are an awful lot of cooks preparing this broth, already.

Looks pretty nice, so far (whichever version I downloaded). The Med is especially nice, but the mid-east does look a bit short-changed (I doubt anything can really be done about that at this point). Europe as a whole looks good, except for some of the rivers....the Danube is a must, and I'd seriously shorten the Rhone (probably the Rhine too). Some of the other Russian rivers would be nice (Don, Volga), but maybe you left those out intentionally? The Crimea also needs some tidying up.

I read in a stray post that the random map generator ensures that there are enough strategic and luxury resources on the map for each civ in play (16 civs = 16 aluminum, uranium, etc). It just clumps many of them together to encourage trade. Can anyone confirm if this is true. If so, are you planning to follow that rule? Including the clumping?

[Gods Pet Monkey]

If I remember correctly, a resource frequency value of 120 means 2 per civ, and seeing most of the valuable resources have a value around this mark, generally there are at least 2 of every resource per civ on the map.

so 16 civs means at least 32 irons.

Hopefully you can hold a monopoly and only sell it to your allies, crippling your enemies. Mind you, this isn't so fun when the AI does it to you.

God's Pet Monkey
"When evolution fails, creation takes over"