Bad news: Next patch on hold

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by player1
I think it has more to do with the stubborness of todays gaming industry.

No one in the right mind would spend a money on whole alpha, beta, final patch cycle just to get few changes in game code.

You do a big tested patch or no patch at all.


P.S.
I hope I'm wrong in this case.

For SP maybe, testing is usually rubbish since the early buyers are cheap testers (as indeed I and many here were for Civ3, and C3C).

For MP, companies like Blizzard (like for World of Warcraft) have closed alpha tests, closed beta, open beta (all together lasting many months) before release.

And it's not just MMORPG......Warcraft 3 had a few months in beta, and some of the patches had a beta period also to make sure they were up to scratch.

So some companies are more responsible, but you are never going to get SP games tested as rigourously.

[Antrine]

I think I'm getting 'tired' now. It is time for a 'wrap up' I'll live with what I got here in this game, yet set my eager eyes elsewhere !!

... however keep the 'rumors' going, someday this 'code' will be available... ...and then improved...

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by player1
I think it has more to do with the stubborness of todays gaming industry.

No one in the right mind would spend a money on whole alpha, beta, final patch cycle just to get few changes in game code.

You do a big tested patch or no patch at all.


P.S.
I hope I'm wrong in this case.

Why would they have to do anything like that? Just a small app that changes a few characters in one of the executable files. Voila!

[Theseus]

Welcome aboard Petrus! I pretty much agree with you... but as pointed out, this is a community that self-selects for smarts, micromanagement, fanatacistic devotion, and among other things that has resulted in SirPleb, who seems pretty darn qualified, offering to do the ongoing patchwork for basically free, and numberous others (e.g., player1 re Armies) figuring out what is exactly going on. A resource set and offer that I don't think most software development companies get very often. So, yeah, I'm a fanboy in a big way, but I still shake my head at some of Firaxis' decisions.

[Petrus2]

Thanks, Theseus.

I understand the statements about little fixes on the bugs, or taking the work of someone who is willing to provide it for free and sending that out as a fix. However, if you think about it, it isn't really that simple.

If a company, ANY company, is going to release code, you know darn well they have a lot of testing to do. They will need to QA the fixes themself, as well as ensure no malicious code is included. Did the "fix" cause any new problems? QA has to check that. So while it sounds easy, it would chew up company resources. And no matter how upset people may be at the latest release, if another release was sent out with new problems, would that make any one happy?! Think of it as Risk Management, from a corporate point of view.

Are there ways around it? Sure, though none perfect.
-They could release the code for anyone to mess with, but that isn't likely until the product is pretty much done as a commercial product (this isn't Unreal, et al). Patches posted in that case wouldn't be "Firaxis", so they'd bear no obligation from problems.
-They could transfer some resources to fixing the problem themselves, but with Pirates and the embryonic Civ 4, I suspect they are fully occupied.
-They could QA the "free" fix, but still, they are probably plenty busy.

Now people are probably thinking I'm an appologist for them, but that's not the case. I'd LOVE to see the 3rd option above, and it probably is the most reasonable. By the same token, it would be a mistake to assume that "a patch is easy, just put up the code provided".

[Theseus]

All true, all true.

I've made the argument before, however, that we are entering a new era of collaboration between developer and customer community... given the assets and resources available HERE (i.e., 'poly, CFC, etc.) it is a pity that Firaxis / Infogrames have not taken the opportunity to lead the way.

[Harovan]

I don't shake my head about Firaxis' decisions. They are all logical from the capitalist point of view. Plain and simple, how much copies of Civ3 did they sell? Without looking it up, I dare to say a few millions for sure. How many of these copies went to us hardcore fans? 5000? Or 10000? Whatever it is, it is less than 1%. Face it, hardcore fans. You mean nothing, and your opinion can be safely ignored. It is much work to satisfy your high expectations, and it is so cheap to get new customers of the kind "ah thanks Mum, a cool new game, keeps me busy for the next week or two". This is the kind of customers companies like Atari and Firaxis appreciate. As sad as it sounds, but they can easily afford to lose their entire fanbase. As Civ4 comes out, new fans will emerge. The supply of dumb, grey sheep, who buy their games, is endless. And this, fellow fanboys, is as sure as the "amen" in the church.

[Antrine]

by Sir Ralph, "they can easily afford to lose their entire fanbase"

Looks like they are almost there!

By Sir Ralph... "...new fans will emerge. The supply of dumb, grey sheep, who buy..."

And I have something to sell... so this definately 'good news' or 'amen'.

With that the field is wide open, bets anyone?

[vondrack]

Well, I do not think I agree completely about "they can easily afford to lose their entire fanbase"... theoretically, they can. But then, the Civ merchandise would become just regular stuff like every other. It would lose that "family silver" status of a well-recognized brand which attracts a great deal of attention just by publishing a new version. Since the new, sheepish buyers do not usually recognize the brand - that's, after all, why they'd buy a sequel to a crappy title...

Also, the hardcore fans are a great asset when it comes to "word of mouth" advertising and - when it comes to support (imagine there would be no Apo or CFC... would newbies ask their questions on www.firaxis.com ?)

My impression is that because of the code legacy going back to Civ1, Firaxis has pretty much given up fixing the unfixable (you fix one bug and introduce a new one or two, because of the poorly written code underneath) and focus on creating a totally new Civ engine they will actually be able to fix efficiently as bugs get reported by the hardcore fanbase.

[player1]

Actrually, since most common bugs that remained are tied to AI decision making, and main AI guru is lead designer of Civ4 (Soren Johnson), I guess that Firaxis resoning was that nobody else was up to the task of fixing remaining bugs.

[Antrine]

Yes, but a few things just can't be that way, like the loading protocol used to load units into armies. Find four or five 'easy fixes' whatever they might be, do it, sing praises of wonderfulness and save some face here and there; at least for sake of SALES of any new products that happen to have 'their brand name' on them.

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by player1
Actrually, since most common bugs that remained are tied to AI decision making, and main AI guru is lead designer of Civ4 (Soren Johnson), I guess that Firaxis resoning was that nobody else was up to the task of fixing remaining bugs.

that explains the lack of artillery use by the AI. and firaxis has confessed that they tried to fix the submarine bug a long time ago but it only triggered other bugs.

what i don't understand is why they couldn't figure non-AI-strategy issues like the SGA or the militaryleader-never-produces-armies-bug...

but oh well... there won't be another patch, so there's no sence asking why and whining

[Harovan]

Yes, yes, the fairy tale of "multiplier" and "word of mouth propaganda". I must have heard it before. And I find it really amusing, that so many people buy the "sorry customers, we're not able to deliver a quality product, but you should really, really, really, really, really buy the next sequel. It's written by the same people, but it will be a real pleasure" story. If my car dealer said such a thing, would you believe that I buy the next model of this brand?

[DrSpike]

A lot of truth to what you say Ralph. I would contend, however, that the extremes to which companies take that philosophy is different, and not in a way that favours Firaxis.

Next time I am trying before I buy, and if it sucks coming back 6 months later. No way I am testing another game for free.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Next time I am trying before I buy, and if it sucks coming back 6 months later. No way I am testing another game for free.

Same here. And I will watch Apolyton carefully and look for the opinions of people I know I can trust. And for sure this is not the "The air conditioner in my new car doesn't work. I simply leave it turned off and still enjoy to drive in my car" crowd.