Sid games C3C: how to improve our skills

[vmxa1]

If you are still in despotism, I like to capture the settler and get the two slaves. They will be the same about peace as any other level. You will have to hurt them a few times or wait a long time for them to want peace. The difference IMO is they will surely have a stronger power rating and hence be more inclined to stay at war. It will be hard to get others involved.

This is not a big problem when they are on another land mass as you know they will do a crappy job of invading. If you are in Republic, then it is a tougher call.

[vmxa1]

I am looking forward to the next pahse. I find that the ancient age is not too bad. You can get a wonder or two and use the GL to hang close and defend from the lame invasions on island maps.

It is worse if the AI's are isolated from you and you can't get contacts for a long time. In any event, once they break past Education and get to the tech after it, the game can start to get ugly. If no AI is in position to challenge the top AI, the game can come apart. One big KAI will roll up all the wonders and the other civs and leave you no place to grow. This is the problem, I have no answer for at this time.

[nbarclay]

It's amazing what a good REX can do. Egypt is in Republic. I'm still stuck in Despotism. Pay close attention to the Mfg. Goods stat.

Note that to pull this off, I've been running my luxury slider at 50% for a long time now. But I just traded horses to the Zulus for wines (thanks to the Great Lighthouse), letting me drop back a notch.

Egypt is way ahead of me in tech. I'm still missing Currency and Construction (not to mention Monarchy and Republic), while Egypt has started work on Sun Tsu's. Unfortunately, I'm having no luck finding other civs; I still just have my original two contacts. With the Great Lighthouse and the high cost of galleys, I've been reluctant to risk sinking, and safe routes haven't been panning out in the directions I've been searching thus far.

[ErikM]

That's why imo you need to use cash windfall from the GL to rush, rush, rush marketplaces, libraries, and courthouses as there is no tomorrow. Once Education expires, you need to have stellar infrastructure in your cities to be able to handle your own research.

If you can engage AIs in wars to prevent their trade, they will still suck in their city management as AI does not use luxury slider and will use entertainers to keep their cities in check. Since their armies are so huge, they will be reluctant to assault each others' cities directly, but they will pillage everything in sight, reducing their economic potential.

While 4 turn research is difficult to achieve (even on the standard map), 5-6 turn research after Education is doable and that is enough to keep up in the tech game, especially if AI is slowed down.

[Edit: this was in reply to Vmxa post]

[nbarclay]

310 BC, and I recently made contact with Japan. They only have half a dozen cities, and they're horribly backward in tech. I'm seriously considering helping them out since they're so close to Egypt, but I'm not ready to make that decision just yet.

I've essentially finished REXing on my home continent. There's a place or two where I might consider squeezing in additional cities, but I'm not ready to make a decision on that yet. At the moment, I'm mostly focused on trying to make my culture less of a joke.

[vmxa1]

Erik it sounds solid, but not easy to do and requires the AI to have a rivial or two. If all those are not present, you got a problem.

[vmxa1]

Nathan you have done your usual great job of developing your land.

One of the things I mentioned to MS at the out set was that if you do not have a lux in proximity, you need a new map. On a land of that size, you need two luxs. It is not bad at the start to not have them as you can build workers and settlers to trim the city size, but later that is not a solution.

This is not some OCC game, where you can trade for a lux. The AI will not be helping you in that department and you will only have one or two chances to trade tech for them anyway. Not a long term solution.

If Japan was within your reach, then you could annex them. As you are starting to see a bad map is a killer. I mean by that, you are not able to gain contacts in a timely fashion.

This has happened to me before on Sid and you are unable get to Astro to get out. Some times you need Nav, if you are bounded by ocean. Once a KAI emerges the speed of research and wonders is scary. It won't them be long before all the civs see all the map.

[nbarclay]

It's now 110 BC and I just entered the medieval era. I just made contact with the Mongols and Arabia, neither of which is even close to competitive. That leaves the Celts and Hittites as the two civs I haven't met yet.

I've actually pulled ahead of Egypt in percentage of the world's population, 23 percent to 21 percent. That's not really a good lead over an AI, but at least it's a lead. So trying to compete with Egypt may not be quite completely hopeless.

I'm going to go ahead and post my current save in case others want to pick up from here. If anyone does, however, I ask that you please not post reports any farther along in the game than where I am.

One note: I've adjusted my slider to start research on Republic, since I'm tired of Despotism and have no way of knowing whether a second AI might research Republic for me in a timely manner or not. But options remain open if you would rather do something different.

Nathan

[nbarclay]

Oops. Forgot to attach the save.

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Nathan you have done your usual great job of developing your land.

One of the things I mentioned to MS at the out set was that if you do not have a lux in proximity, you need a new map. On a land of that size, you need two luxs.

The way I look at it, I'm a whole lot better off with this big a land mass and just one lux than I would be with a smaller land mass and one lux.

This is not some OCC game, where you can trade for a lux. The AI will not be helping you in that department and you will only have one or two chances to trade tech for them anyway. Not a long term solution.

Given the peculiar nature of this game, I'm hoping I'll be able to do a lot better than that. I'm already trading horses to the Zulus for wines, thanks to the Great Lighthouse. I probably won't find it practical to trade for Egypt's luxuries, but I think I'll be enough bigger than the other AIs to trade for at leat most of the other luxuries on an ongoing basis if I really want to.

[Mountain Sage]

Nathan, you are (partially) right. I botched the first part of my rexxing, manly to the fact that I fully developed my capital before making it a 5-turns settler pump (with 2 MP, a granary, a temple, a marketplace etc.).

Then I pumped up my second city to size 6-7 (used settlers again) before using it for a palace pre-build (in my first game, with the GL). I believe I was too obsessed in not getting the GLibrary. Of course, I fully developed my second city too...

Vmxa,
I didn't understand you post about city spacing. A C-T-T-C rexxing gives you more cities, more production (dubious in the fringes) and a better coverage, I agree. But it also means a lot more settlers. I tried the two approaches and, strangely, the rexxing period was about the same. I'll post some more comments on the rest of the games until the mid of the Middle Age.

ErikM,
I agree with the using of the cash of the GL to rush everything possible, but then you have to be in Republic.
The problem I had with my game with the GL is that Egypt was so far ahead that I was second in tech (and the leader of the pack). I still had to research the Republic all by myself at 50 turns (no faster).
Imagine, Egypt was building Copernicus when I got it finally.
In fact, the GL was completely useless to me (I believe I just got Monotheism from it) and all other civs were just broke because of me selling them techs. This is why I started a second game without the GL and I got confirmation that, in this particular game, you gould be second in techs without it, at least through the Ancient Times. The difference between Nathan and me is probably that I made contact with all other civs very early (no editor, so I didn't know the map, and I lost a few curraghs, i.e. less settlers to build). Them as usual on archipelago, you just trade between groups of civs.

As for Japan, in my first game, they got wiped out by Egypt. In my second one, I gifted them 3-4 techs and managed to survive (until now).

[vmxa1]

I wish I could look at your save, but I went to 1.22 and cannot even load the 4000bc save.

[vmxa1]

MS, one of the things it is hard to know is what landings you can expect. If no one will reach you for some time and only one civ is strong, you will have the ability to fill out the land as you please.

Often you have several civs that are stronger than you or are close enough to land incursion early. If this is the case it will be harder to deal with those landings on an OCP spacing.

Those extra cities can make units, even if they are not very productive and you will need all the units you can get to tangle with any AI at this level.

My perspective is the game is not too hard, until you have to expand by taking on one of the civs. The first one is often not advanced, but after that one you will not find civs with out the same tech as you very often. Most of the addition ones I took out had already been weakened by the KAI.

If this map is large and the civs are well spaced out and isolated you can have a larger window to find them backward.

BTW can you post the biq or send it to me. I would like to see what it looks like. I presume that 122 will not affect looking at the scenario. Well hold off for a week to give nbarclay a chance to finish.

[nbarclay]

From what Mountain Sage has said, this is a normally started game, not a scenario, so there would be no .biq for it.

I'm not asking that people not post ahead of me in gemeral; just that they not do it if they're playing from my own save. Seeing information from the future from a world so closely parallel to my own would feel a lot more awkward than seeing information from the future from worlds that diverged from mine thousands of years ago.

[vmxa1]

Yeah, I was not thinking again. I knew MS did not use the editor, but forgot. So I guess I will have to wait to see some detail pix to see what the world looks like.