Sid games C3C: how to improve our skills

[vmxa1]

So this should give you a good start, I hope. Any questions either post or email. Good luck.

[nbarclay]

The Dutch and Archipelago maps can go together beautifully if there is a nice amount of fresh water available. The Seafaring trait provides lots of contacts for a highly favorable tech trading position (since humans use suicide curraughs and galleys and AIs don't), while Agricultural provides good REXing early and good growth later. I've never tried Sid before, but under ideal conditions (as in massive numbers of restarts to find exactly the right conditions), I've been able to get a tech lead in the ancient era and keep it on Deity playing the Dutch on an Archipelago map.

As for initiating a GA, all you have to do is find someone's doorstep to drop a load of Swiss Mercs on. If one of them wins when the AI attacks your "invasion force," you get your GA. (Of course getting peace on decent terms afterward might be a bit of a problem on Sid. )

Nathan

[vmxa1]

So true, it can be painful to try to get peace. You need to take a number of cities and that is not always easy.

What concerns with Seafaring is that it is best used on island maps and invading any civ that is not vey isolated is nearly impossible at Sid. I can invade isolated ones, those that the KAI has weaken and those on my land mass, but the rest are just killer.

They will have at least your tech and probably more and will have at least a 1000 units. Even backward civs will have 700 or more, if you do not delay getting to them to long.

You land on them and if you can crack a city, it will be impossible to hold. You just can't get enough units on scene. At least that is what I have run into so far. This is playing with no mods, no cooking the map and often even getting favorable RNG rolls.

Your mileage may vary, especially if you have a better plan and tactics.

[Aqualung71]

vmxa....so you've got Microprose on your system....still play Civ2?

[vmxa1]

Funny that is Moo2, but under SomeTimes I have or usually have installed Test Of Time. I can't remember if I reinstalled it that the last time I formated my HD.

But no, I have not played CivII, since III came out. One day, maybe. It may be installed on the ME side. This is dual boot now.
Well sort of, ME won't boot unless I unplug the Raptor drive. Not even when I remove it in the Bios. Very annoying.

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Mountain Sage

No, I don't use the editor,
Yes I have faith in the inherent goodness and balance of Civ3 random map editor.

Goodness? Yes. Balance? I'm curious as to how many restarts it took to get this set-up, because what I've seen so far (1200 BC) is definitely not average. Not that I'm complaining; I wouldn't even consider trying to play Sid from an average starting position.

[vmxa1]

Me either. I have not had any mega starts, but I do want a river, + food, some shields tiles (hills/forrest/BG) and one lux within 10 tiles.

Nathan how are you doing so far? I hope you kick its butt.

[nbarclay]

This definitely qualifies as a mega start. The capital doesn't have the kind of mega-production potential that would be desirable in most Sid games, but it fits the circumstances of this particular map just fine. More important is the fact that the goodness of the map extends far beyond just the capital.

I won't say more until others have had a chance to get started (assuming anyone wants to), but I will say that if you're looking for a relatively easy game on Sid (with the emphasis on the "relatively", Sid being what it is), this definitely qualifies. So much so, in fact, that I have a hard time envisioning its lessons carrying over to a more normal Sid game.

There are still ways I could get bit if some of the things I don't know yet turn nasty on me. But between the starting position and another piece of good luck later on, I'm highly optimistic.

By the way, if anyone wants to know the barbarian conditions, highlight the spoliler text below with your mouse. It can make a huge difference in early strategy.

Barbarians:

Spoiler:

sedentary

[vmxa1]

I think I have had my fill of islands for awhile.
As to barbs, it seems to be of no import on my Sid games as even with NO BARBS, I see barbs wandering around in a matter of less than 10 turns. So I have to behave the same either way.

I posted a shot of a game with no barbs and looky here, I see barbs anyway on turn 7?

Looking forward to some AAR's. I would not worry about late comers at this point. They have had about 5 days and should expect to see pics by now. So if they are concerned they should not be ready the thread way down to this point.

[nbarclay]

Warning: from here on, spoiler information in this thread will start to get thicker.

The only barbs I've seen all game are three popped from a hut in a border expansion. It's a good thing, too, because I'm so used to no barbs in my own experiments on Deity (and most of my Demigod games for that matter) that I wasn't prepared at all if they'd shown up.

I'm up to 1025 BC, about eight turns from Literature and with 77 shields on a prebuild toward the Great Library. I'll probably post the story of the game to date once that race is either won or lost.

Speaking of the race for Literature, a couple turns or so ago, I was shown as second in Literacy, and now I'm back to first. Does anyone have any idea what, if anything, that means in terms of where I stand in the race for the Literature tech? I've seen similar fluctuations in the past, but I've never figured out what, if anything, they mean.

Nathan

[vmxa1]

Literacy (%)
(Citizens who live in a city with a Library + Citizens who live in a city with a University + Citizens who live in a city with a Research Lab) / 3 / (Total Number of Citizens) * 100% + (3% if Literature discovered)
If every city has just a library you will have 33%, because they are missing the other 2 science buildings.

Edit: Or live in a city with 1 or more scientific Great Wonders (Great Library, Newtons, SETI, Theory of Evolution, Cure for Cancer, and Internet) Copernicus's does not count because despite it helps science, it isn't given the scientific flag. Having 1 of those wonders counts the same as if they had all the other improvements in the city. Two small wonders (apollo and Intelligence Agency) give you credit for having 50% science in that city. You also get 3% added to your literacy rate when you get the literature tech. No bonus when you get education. Great Library still helps your literacy rate even after it is obsolete.
*************


I am not too sure how current this is, but close enough. You already know this I would guess. So it would seem that as they add cities, it would lower their Lit rate. I don't see any connection to the race for tech. If they had pulled ahead and maybe another civ or two had also passed you, I would figure that someone got lit and passed it around.

I often beat them to Lit via the Phil free tech method, even if I did not start with Alpha. The GL is a bit tricker, depending on my prebuild and the shields for that city. Well of course any SGL's showing up.

No barbs, man that is nice as I have had them kill many units, including spears and swords.

[ErikM]

I would try this out but I feel I need to finish my shot at Sid with Iroquois first. Man does the game get tedious once you have 100+ miltary units to push around each turn.

[vmxa1]

Anyone know if the save is valid for 1.22?

[nbarclay]

My literacy went up to 3% while I was still researching Literature (I didn't pay any attention to it until the race was on), and stayed there once I finished the research. While I was doing the research, I kept going back and forth from first to second in literacy. This isn't the first time I've seen that sort of strangeness while researching Literature, and I have no real idea what's behind it.

[rush]

In C3C, i noticed my Literacy score goes up to 3% after discovering Philosophy. I did not research Literature after Philosophy, so it can't be Literature.

Then the standing goes up and down while the Literacy % remains at 3%. Never figure out why though.