Everything about Corruption: C3C edition

[alexman]

Originally posted by Arrian
Am I right. Or at least close to right?

Yes, that's the way it works, although your actual number is a bit off because Monarch has 85% of the OCN, not 90%.

Is anyone interested in the industrial era save, to see how the FP area is doing when more built up?

That would be interesting, although if you also had a spare leader as well, so we can rush the Palace at different locations to see the effect, it would be perfect!

[Arrian]

Ah, .85 instead of .9. So 36.5. Does it round up or down? I'd guess down, so 36 cities.

I don't have a leader, no. But that is something that can be remedied

Not easily, since I have 3-4 elite units, all knights, all of which are on a galleon sailing to a war that's over now (English "sneak" attacked me with the famous "drop off 1 attack unit next to a human city" move, so I took their fur town away from them).

But I could smack down the French and try for leaders (made easier now because I have replaceable parts -> artillery). Or maybe I'll get a SGL at some point (none thus far in the game).

-Arrian

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Arrian
(English "sneak" attacked me with the famous "drop off 1 attack unit next to a human city" move, so I took their fur town away from them).

Reminds me the old days of Colonization, when some AI civ dropped a rifleman right next to my city and tried to extort me, declaring war when I told him to bugger off. I attacked the rifleman then. Since in Colonization units didn't get killed, but only disarmed, I suddenly had a veteran Statesman just to capture. A great asset, because they were so incredibly rare in the early game and very expensive to train in Europe, and very useful in the race for more founding fathers.

[Alex]

thanks for the clear explanation, alexman.

[Arrian]

Never played Colonization, SR. I get the feeling I would have liked it.

-Arrian

[planetfall]

Ah, questions

First of all, Alexman thank you for the analysis. Some questions about your initial report:

For corruption purposes, distance is always an integer number, and is given by:

code:
d = max(x,y) + min(x,y)/2
where
max(x,y) denotes the maximum between x and y,
min(x,y) denotes the minimum between x and y,
x is the distance in the NW/SE direction,
y is the distance in the NE/SW direction,
and the integer division is rounded down.

So X == distance at -45 degrees from vertical
and Y == distance at +45 degrees from vertical

If formula was exactly as you posted, it would seem best to have Palace at north pole to get negative number for distance. Isn't actual formula more like:

d= max(int(x), int(y) ) + min(int(x), int(y))/2

In the special case of communal governments, the distance for all cities is taken as:
code:
d = (Ma / 4
where MaxD = (MapW+MapH)/4, MapW is the width of the map, and MapH is the height of the map, as given in the editor.

The distance, d, is used to get the adjusted distance, da, as follows:
code:
da = 0.5^Ni * min(Gd * t * d, Ma

Is MaxD the same for all gov'ts? If not what is the value for noncommunal govt?

Finally, what is your recommendation for city layout to maximize production under non-communal govt?

An example of a good use of planning to minimize corruption/waste and of not so good planning would be helpful for understanding the impact of the formulas.

Again, thanks.

PF

[alexman]

Re: Ah, questions

Originally posted by planetfall
If formula was exactly as you posted, it would seem best to have Palace at north pole to get negative number for distance.

There is no such thing as negative distance. My x and y are distances, not coordinates. Also, I think you're confusing int with abs.

Is MaxD the same for all gov'ts? If not what is the value for noncommunal govt?

MaxD is just a number that depends on map size. It's half the average of height and width, and doesn't depend on government.

Finally, what is your recommendation for city layout to maximize production under non-communal govt?

See Arrian's example posted above for a good city layout, or visit the AU and strategy forums.

[planetfall]

Wow, are you fast.

I took min/max as functions not distances, thanks for clarifying.

I thought MaxD was the same for all, but wanted to clarify as it initially sounded like that part of the definition was only for communal govts.

I saw Arrians example, but didnot have time to load and view yet.

I find AU confusing. Which AU would you recommend?

Thanks again.

PF

[Arrian]

I think alexman just means reading some of the posts you will find in AU "AAR" or "DAR" threads (AAR = after-action report, DAR = during action report. They're essentially the same thing, but DARs have become the standard - people report in after they've played up to a certain point in the game, either measured by the year or by acheiving some specified goal).

I haven't read the threads on the ongoing AU game, since I plan to play it soon, but I'd imagine there is a fair amount of analysis in there. Possibly corruption related, since the 1.15 patch and the corruption system it contains is still fairly new to most players.

-Arrian

[planetfall]

Arrian,

Thanks for the definitions. Guess my problem was conceptually I was thinking of AU like War Academy and the model is different. It seems like AU is just a series of games and tread comments on them.

What I miss from AU is organization around a theme. I think AU is currently playing a C3C game, but I don't understand how this is different than looking at treads from GOTM.

Thus, I guess from your definitions I should read the DAR threads.

PF

[Arrian]

Well, I'm not all that familiar with GOTM, but I would guess that AU is less competitive - there is no scoring or anything like that. The express purpose is to play, have fun, and learn. Hence the detailed AAR/DARs.

There is also an AU mod. The AU mod is aimed at promoting stategic choice & improving the AI without making drastic changes to the stock rules. Some people play AU games with the mod, some play with stock rules.

-Arrian

[Tall Stranger]

Actually, AU is built around a theme. For example, the current one is "Power of Seafaring." Others have included one-city challenges, the power of communism, and total eternal war scenarios.

AU differs from GOTM in that there is no one "winner" of the game. Rather, the idea is to learn something from every game played so as to improve your understanding of/ skill at the game. The DARs and AARs are a crucial part of that. Hearing how someone decided to take a completely different tactic from you can be very educational. Additionally, since this isn't a competition, you have the freedom and incentive to try out new approaches, since there's no "penalty" for losing.

It's a lot of fun, and a great way to improve your game. Give it a shot.

[planetfall]

Tall Stranger,

You have valid points. I dropped GOTM and QSC because of the time involved and the funky scoring system. Civfan has more of a competition tone to the forums and poly has more of a cooperative tone. That's why I am on both forums. I haven't tried AU yet. I plan to complete my current revision of my opening game first and then will take a look at AU for refining.

PF

[Arrian]

Is anyone interested in the industrial era save, to see how the FP area is doing when more built up?

...

That would be interesting, although if you also had a spare leader as well, so we can rush the Palace at different locations to see the effect, it would be perfect!

Well I played on and on and on and I finally got that damned leader. I generated a SGL upon discovering Steel. I didn't have time last night to post the save, but I will early next week.

Trying for leaders was an excercise in frustration, I must say. I waited until my trade deals lapsed (I have this thing about breaking deals with the AI. I don't do it to them, only them to me) and attacked France. I figured with Infantry, Artillery (a lot of it) and Cavalry, I'd roll right over them, and have lots of victories for my 4 elite knights & 3 elite ancient cavs against 1hp frenchy units.

It didn't exactly go that way. A combination of the new-and-improved Muskteer, some bad luck (particularly with my elites hitting those redlined units... they did terribly!), and the sheer size of the French army (they built Knights Templar and at one point put together a formidable stack of musketeers and crusaders) meant the war was longer and more frustrating than I expected. I've broken them, but it wasn't a cakewalk.

Plus, the very turn I invaded France, England decided to move on the fur city I had captured from them the last time Lizzie messed with me. I was never in danger of losing the city (knights attacking infantry in a walled town), but I didn't have the forces to go on the attack, since I needed all the Cav I had to deal with the French. Speaking of the French, they dropped off a landing group next to the aforementioned fur city, and with everything going on, I forgot to wake up my Cav and kill it off. The result was them cutting my only fur supply, which knocked 1/2 my empire out of WLTKD.

All in all, minor irritations, but it was adding up. Then, despite two simultaneous wars, how do I get the leader? SGL. Figures.

Anyway, I'll post the game when I get back from skiing, and hopefully people will find it interesting to move the palace around and see the results.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Here is the save. The SGL is in Salamanca.

-Arrian