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Thanks, alexman, for laying out the nuts 'n bolts of corruption in Conquests 1.15.
I'm still trying to get a feel for FP placement, though.
I started a new game on thursday of last week, because I had finally downloaded and applied the patch, but the AU game wasn't posted yet. I have gotten some MGLs, one of which I used to rush a FP. If I post the game, will those of you (such as alexman) who seem to grasp the corruption system a bit better than I do check it out and give their thoughts on my placement?
Sweet. Will do when I get home (~3 hours, blah, grocery shopping to do).
By the way, kudos to the AI in this particular game. I went looking for a pump start spot (playing as Iroquois) because I wanted a strong game w/a FP to try and work on the placement. Hence the start I got... it took me a few restarts to get it. Once I got a pump-capable start spot, it turned out to be just awesome. When it rains, it pours, and when the sun shines, you get skin cancer. Or something like that. Anyway, my REXmania was interrupted not once but twice by Russian sneak attacks, each of which cost me a border town (they took out one, I abandoned the other and retreated to fight them off closer to my core). They were a major pain in the ass until I unloaded on them with swords, MWs, and ancient cavalry (I got Zeus, but fairly late, because it took forever to connect my ivory). Granted, the first sneak attack was just a couple of warriors, but it was justified, since all I had to counter it was a couple of warriors. They got a little lucky (took out fortified reg warrior on hill with vet warrior) and it cost me a town. The second attack was more serious - about 5 archers and a warrior or two. I fought it off with a couple of spears, several warriors (vets now, as I was preparing for sword upgrade) and an archer or two. I won, but kudos to the AI for hitting me when I was running almost zero military and REXing like a madman. It did hurt me, and annoyed the hell out of me.
By the way, I know I need some galleys, especially since I have the Lighthouse. I lost my curragh and a galley to suicide runs, and just haven't built any more yet.
Alexman,
you might also look on my 'Emperor C3C' thread. I put a table with the difference between wasted shields before and after the FP. Is that helpful in any way?
Arrian, you have done a great job of placing your Forbidden Palace for the current state of your empire. You have almost no rank corruption problems, so the best location is much like it used to be in PTW, so that the distance corruption is minimized.
I think the key is to keep your FP core under the modified OCN. Your current OCN is 31 without a courthouse and 36 with a courthouse:
Nopt = 20*(0.85 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 3/8 + 0.25*Ni)
The rank of your Forbidden Palace city, Kawauka, is 22.
The rank of Vladivostock, a city in the FP core in the opposite direction of the Palace, is 28.
You might have afforded to place the FP a little farther away, and still be below Nopt with a courthouse in your FP area, and certainly afforded to place it farther away if you count on police stations. With a farther FP, when you would have expanded to conquer your continent, your distance corruption would not be as bad in the western areas.
What you have done is very good choice though. A FP closer to your palace will give some super-productive cities in its core. A FP farther away might increase the overall economy of your empire, but it would not have as strong individual cities.
MS, I'll look at your thread, but I'm not sure if I can add anything, unless you have any specific questions of why you are observing a certain behavior.
Thanks, alexman. The number-crunching is a little beyond me. But it seems my choice, based on my basic understanding of the new system + gut instinct, appears to have been a good one. So now I know.
I ended up playing forward a bit after I posted the game, and suffice it to say that I now have a bunch more cities. But, as I understand it, so long as the newly acquired cities are farther from the Palace than the cities in the FP area, the FP area will be ok, right?
See, I went and conquered Germany (Pyramids, HG, wines. Couldn't resist). That gave me... let's see... 10-11 more cities. Russia is destroyed too (1 city). I built a city SW of the FP city, 6 of the gold mountain. Spain attacked me, and lost 1 city for their trouble (in the hills, west of the gold mountain).
So about 14 new cities have entered the empire. The German cities will always be corrupt, I figure, which is fine. They're mostly irrigated already (thanks, AI!) so they will be specialist cities.
-Arrian
p.s. Built those galleys & made contact, though the Dutch beat me to it. No matter, since the Dutch are horribly backward compared to the rest of my continent.
p.p.s Coracle would have had a stroke. I had German city flip on me, taking with it a 3x med inf army, an ancient cav, and at least one healing elite mounted warrior.
So the distance Corruption for cities under Communism only varies with the number of Corruption improvements (assuming they're connected to the trade network)?
1. No Courthouse or Police Station: Cd = 25%
2. Either Courhouse or Police Station: Cd = 12.5%
3. Both Courthouse and Police Station: Cd = 6.25%
Right?
Dominae
And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
alexman, let me throw out a statement and you let me know if it's correct: building a Forbidden Palace in a remote location no longer produces a "second core", because typically most of the cities around that location will have high rank, and so their small distance Corruption will be overshadowed by their rank Corruption.
If true, it is no longer a good strategy to rush the FP in a recently-conquered empire, unless that empire is rather close to home.
Dominae
And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
Originally posted by Dominae
1. No Courthouse or Police Station: Cd = 25%
2. Either Courhouse or Police Station: Cd = 12.5%
3. Both Courthouse and Police Station: Cd = 6.25%
Unless the city is not connected to the trade network, that's absolutely right.
building a Forbidden Palace in a remote location no longer produces a "second core", because typically most of the cities around that location will have high rank, and so their small distance Corruption will be overshadowed by their rank Corruption.
While this might be true in most cases, it's not necessarily always true. As you know, the amount of corruption in the FP core depends on the number of cities that are closer to the palace than a given city in the FP core. If you have a small core around your palace (because you're on an island, or because you don't want to attack your immediate neighbors, or whatever reason), then you can rush your FP on the moon and it would provide the same benefit as if you had rushed it at any other location (unless it overlaps with your Palace core).
A good way to check whether your FP core will be functional is to make sure that the ranks of the FP core cities are less than their modified OCN. For a standard map (OCN=20), in Republic, with a FP and a courthouse, the modified OCN is about 34. So, for example, as long as your Palace core is under the OCN (20), you can have 14 productive cities in your FP core.
A good way to check whether your FP core will be functional is to make sure that the ranks of the FP core cities are less than their modified OCN. For a standard map (OCN=20), in Republic, with a FP and a courthouse, the modified OCN is about 34. So, for example, as long as your Palace core is under the OCN (20), you can have 14 productive cities in your FP core.
Level of play influences this as well, right? My game was played on Monarch level, and my civ was commercial. It was a standard map. Commercial is +25% and Monarch level multiplies the OCN by .9, right?
I tried using the formula you set forth above, and I came up with a modified OCN of 37.5 for my Iroquois empire. Standard Map, Monarch, Commercial Civ, Republic*, courthouses.
Nopt = max(20*(.9+.25+.1+.375+.25), 1).
Am I right. Or at least close to right?
-Arrian
* - republic at the time of the save I posted above. The empire is now a democracy, and not all that far away from getting police stations. Is anyone interested in the industrial era save, to see how the FP area is doing when more built up?
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