Your SID level experiences

[DrSpike]

Don't blame him.........I planted the cooking idea earlier.

[Enriquillo]

I think more civs can even make it easier, because the bully, the japanese in my case, just pick on the smaller civs and get free armies while doing it.

So I don't think having less civs makes it easier. All the land will be covered anyway, just with fewer and larger AI's.
But, I'll try one later with standard amount of civs, I just picked less so I wouldn't have one on my island.
That would mean mission impossible

Just try the save, it's a good game I promise you. The Japanese are pretty mean in this one.
And ofcourse it's cheating, I restarted until I got a reasonable start with at least 2 luxuries to work with.
I never do this on emperor, but on SID I figure I need to cheat a little...
Besides, I played one earlier on standard setts, with standard number of AI's and barbs. I was doing just as well, but had no luxuries to work with which really killed my game.
I agree getting to 16+ cities on SID is pretty rare, but it does happen. You just need to restart a few times, hehe.

EDIT: I think the main 'trick' to beat SID is to get the Great Library through a palace prebuild. You can just make loads of money after that, build up your temples/libraries and work from there.
I got about 6 techs the turn after I got the GL build.
I figure the playing field is pretty much level now that I've got the GL and 3 luxuries.

[Theseus]

I had the same issues with Bamspeedy's pre-C3C game, but good for you for even TRYING Enriquillo!!

I have a different idea:

Without 'cooking", what would be the best civ / settings / start / etc., to play for a reasonable shot at winning? Normal stuff only, please.

[Enriquillo]

IMHO, it'd be large archi, England, but Holland would do as well.
I just feel the man-o-war is a more usefull UU, although I haven't yet gotten to the point where I could use them on SID.

Ofcourse you need to restart a few times to get a reasonable starting location.

[ThePlagueRat]

Originally posted by Alex
Sid? He doesn't even play Civ anymore.

Not even freeciv?
I suspect it was him that wiped my bottoms here the other day.

[Theseus]

Enriquillo, did you see AI C3C Armies?

[Footballgod128]

what does cooking mean...?

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Theseus
Enriquillo, did you see AI C3C Armies?

I think he meant numbers of troops as opposed to a army as a unit.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Footballgod128
what does cooking mean...?

It means that you set things up with artifical parameters to make it better for the player.

This could mean using lots of water and picking a seafaring civ or maybe an unusal number of civs for the land (either too few or too many). I am not sure if that is a cooking issue or not.

Reloading to get optimal start locations and neighbors and the like. Of course using an editor is beyond cooking.

It would be interesting to hear from others as to what is a fair test, other than a straight random run. I mean I am not sure if 5 civs is an issue or not, but I think it probably could be one.
I can see in that setup if you were Mayan, you could rex a lot of land. In the Sid game that Dom posted he ran a lot of cities. I choose not to as the FP and GPT bug were not fixed at that time and I was trying to avoid it.

[Enriquillo]

I´ll have to check on that armie thing, I did resign once and noticed there were a lot of leaders generated by Japan, but I doubt they have armies though. Sorry for the confusion.

This is just a practice game to get a feel for SID, a little cooking is necessary I´m afraid. You don´t stand a chance without it, at least I don´t

[Aeson]

I think Agricultural and Seafaring (Dutch) are the best on standard settings Sid. Seafaring for best chance you can play middle man between continents, and the best starting tech. Agricultural because it makes every other tile with fresh water access a bonus food source, and you can build Granaries from the start.

If you pull off the Great Library, you could even be the first one to safely cross oceans with your Carracks. Probably gives you time for one 'free' war where you can safely get to the AI and they can't get to you. (Seafaring can do this on it's own too) The Great Library also makes Agricultural even better, as you'll get a Government tech to switch to right after it's built most likely.

Iroquois are a very good choice with their new Agricultural and Commercial traits. They have Alphabet, and can build Granaries from the start. MW's powerful, moreso now as Iron is less common.

Those two have the most synergy between their traits and UU IMO. A lot of others have good traits and good UU's that don't quite click together as nicely.

Expansionist is very good on larger landmasses still. You can scout out the AI's territory, which keeps you from attacking blind, and lets you get contacts on the other side. With the changes to map trading, it's very close to the other two top traits even on standard settings.

Main problem with Expansionist is that the Inca are the ones which combine it with Agriculture, and their UU loses some of these advantages. Ability to stay in AI territory for extended periods of time being the biggest hit. At least you have a regular Scout at the start though.

Scientific is much more important on Sid than it is on Deity IMO. You can research Iron Working right off. Byzantines and Persia are both good Scientific civs, and Russia is the best civ for spotting Iron. Where the Iron shows up will change the course of the game quite a bit. The change in chances for SGL's is insignificant on Sid though, you can get Literature first (if you start with Alphabet) and that will probably be your last one.

Commercial is pretty good because it starts with Alphabet. You're not going to get a whole lot of cities most of the time, so the corruption aspect of the trait is less useful. If you're not Seafaring, Commercial becomes more important.

Industrious is nice, but it's not a big deal. Agricultural civs will complete terrain improvements as fast or faster because they end up with more Workers. The Maya are the exception as they get both traits. Combined with Commercial or Seafaring, Industrious gets better. Being able to go for Mathmatics gives you an earlier shot at Zeus is you're lucky, early Catapults, and a very long shot at a 'first to' tech for trading. The 'first to' shot would require bad AI start positions, none of them with Alphabet or Masonry probably.

Militaristic isn't quite as important on Sid IMO. Often on lower difficulty levels the cost of a Barracks will allow for faster rushes, but you don't really want faster rushes on Sid. Also, with the increased upgrade costs and narrower windows of opportunity, more of your Warriors built early aren't going to get upgraded, and so don't need to be Vets. This is offset by the slightly better chance of getting a Leader (Army), which makes a bigger difference in C3C.

Religious is my least favorite trait for Sid (one of my favorites on Deity). Lower government transition time is nice, so are cheaper Temples and Cathedrals, but they are advantages you'll be out of the Ancient Era to first take advantage of. Most of the other traits build up enough advantage during the Ancient Era that will cover anything you can get from Religious later on.

Combined with an Alphabet starting tech, Religious gets better though, because you'll get to the Middle Ages a lot faster with the Great Library. Indians are an interesting choice because your Elephants are powerful, with the Great Library you'll likely have them with a window of opportunity to use them, and you won't get screwed by Iron or Horses. (note to self: try the Indians on Sid)

[Filippo]

well if you play archipelago sooner or later you will need to conquer someone's other island. And there's none as good at that as the Vikings :P

[Filippo]

The Portugues have a nice UU and traits sinegery too I think, and they are good in an archipelago map, because you will get free techs from the villages and you will have more chances to meet other civs earlier and exchange these techs. Also in the middle age their Carrack will wipe out other ships

[Aeson]

There definitely is a major change in the feel of the game depending on how crowded a map is. The AI's do worse the larger they get, relative to what more AI's could do with the same territory. Each AI will be stronger, but taken as a whole, the AI's will be weaker.

The biggest advantage the AI gets in the expansion phase is the free units at the start. They don't make very good use of faster production times for Settlers, and don't set up Worker/Settler factories. So the longer the expansion phase, the more ground the player can make up.

On lower difficulty levels there are advantages to more crowded maps too, mainly that there are more AI to take advantage of militarily and diplomatically. You can realistically fight AI after AI, or trade around, and gain more because there are more of them to fight. On Sid, you need a substantial buildup phase before being in a position to take even little bites out of an AI. You also get screwed badly in every deal you make, and so the trading game doesn't really pay off much (without the gpt bug). From an alliance standpoint, more civs is harder on Sid too. When you fight one of 6 AI, you need to buy off a neighbor or two to make sure all 6 aren't going to come after you. With 16, you're going to need to buy off more of them.

There are more diplomatic opportunities with more AI, but the AI will get the advantage out of them much more often than at lower difficulty levels.

[Aeson]

I did confuse the Portugeuse and Dutch UU's... oops. The main advantage of the Dutch is food and contacts, but losing out on Carracks does dent them a little.