Armies DO Have Combat Bonus!

[Kuciwalker]

That's scary. A bonused marine army in a transport that can attack TWICE.

[Catt]

Theseus hasn't popped in yet, but I thought I'd add that the comat bonus also disproportionately helps mixed-unit armies (that is if my speculation is accurate).

First the speculation: In PTW, mixed-unit armies displayed stats that were averages from the constituent units stats, but armies employed stats of the actual unit engaged in combat. For example, a tank-cavalry-knight-knight army would attack with the tank's attack value of 16 unless it lost 1/4 of its HPs in one battle -- then the battle would contiue with the cavalry's value of 6; but the stats would show a rounded-version of the averages, so the army stats would probably be dsiplayed as 7.4.2. My speculation is that the army combat bonus is similarly applied to individual units stats within an army for combat purposes; in other words, that the army combat bonus for the above army would be 5 on the attack, and that it would attack with an attack value of 21 unless it lost 1/4th of its HPs in one battle and then would continue with an attack value of 11.

Why would this disproportionately help mixed-unit armies? In PTW, the more modern units in a mixed-unit army essentially got to share (borrow) extra HPs from its other army members from battle to battle. If my speculation is correct, a similar sharing would occur in those instances when an individual battle is going badly. The above example army would generate an 11-attack-value cavalry -- essentially, the cavalry unit shares (borrows) some of the inflated combat bonus generated by its other member's (tank's) higher attack value.

Catt

[Kuciwalker]

Is anyone concerned about the fact that there are now four-move armies? Seems like a Cavalry army would be even better for pillaging now.

[WarpStorm]

The best pillager is now the Conquistador army. It'll probably die right after doing it, but it can completely remove a city from the grid in only one turn.

[Inverse Icarus]

assuming it's within 1 tile of the city, right? 3 moves, all as road = 9 moves, 8 tiles to pillage.

[Theseus]

I am... speechless. I could almost cry, I am so happy. Seriosuly, I think I'm gonna squeeze out a few.

In fact, I'm gonna make a spreadsheet for this, just to see en masse how great this is.

Re the mixed unit Armies: Catt is quite right, the stats shown are confusing, and that units fight one by one in descending order of strength.

So, I think mixed unit Armies will disproportionately benefit the weaker units. This will be more meaningful on defense, as in attack, the strongest unit will attack first each time, with an allotment of 1/4 of total remaining hps... so unless your a dope, and attack with too few hps left, that Tank sitting at the head of 3xCavs will do all the fighting.

A typical defender mixed unit Army of mine would be, say, 2xPike+Rifle+Infantry. So, in the event that this Army got attacked, and on a given attack it got worn down through the Infantry (now 14d) and Rifle (now 10d), the Pikes would have a defense of (10+6+3+3)/6+3=6.7d, or I assume 7d, before modifiers.

And that doesn't suck.

YIPPEE!!!!

/me does his Army dance.

[Theseus]

So a 4xSipahi Army with max bonus is friggin' 16 attack??!! And moves 4 tiles?? And blitzes? And pillages?

Jesus wept.

[sabrewolf]

warpstorm,
i disagree. conquistadors may have 6 effective moves, but in fact they "only" have 2. in an army 3. they could move 9 tiles far, but each pillaging would cost them 3 "moves" ... so at best they can pillage 3 times.

however. think of a knight army moving through the countryside defending the 6 conquistadors (or even explorers, if needed) pillaging their way through the enemy territory


has someone made any field tests of
a) unit regeneration in an army without moving in a turn
b) unit regeneration in an army WITH moving in that turn
c) unit regeneration in an army in a city without barracks
d) unit regeneration in an army in a city with barracks
and
e) non-armied-unit, regeneration in enemy territory (what are the odds? 1:3 chance of a hit point)
f) non-armied-unit, regeneration in enemy territory with battlefield medecine


as amazon.co.uk will probably let me wait another week, i can't test this myself...

[WarpStorm]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
warpstorm,
i disagree. conquistadors may have 6 effective moves, but in fact they "only" have 2. in an army 3. they could move 9 tiles far, but each pillaging would cost them 3 "moves" ... so at best they can pillage 3 times.

You may disagree, but I've tried it. It works. Why? What are you missing? The fact that pillages are free actions for armies now and cost no moves.

Oh, yes, Theseus, a Sipahi army is a joy to behold (if you are the Ottomans, that is).

[sabrewolf]

The fact that pillages are free actions for armies now and cost no moves.

that's what i missed...

sorry...

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Theseus
So a 4xSipahi Army with max bonus is friggin' 16 attack??!! And moves 4 tiles?? And blitzes? And pillages?

Jesus wept.

I just finished a game as Ottoman, and made a bunch of armies, but no Sipahi ones. The timing was wrong for me, it woudl have been something with 4 moves. I did make a few MA armies, so nasty with 4 move.

[vmxa1]

Armies in a barrack city fully heal after one turn of no move, just like normal units. Out in the open they seem to recover two hp per unit per turn with no movement. I did not log it, but that is what I recall. In any event they heal very fast.

[pauli]

Originally posted by Thoth
Very nice work Catt. I thought my armies were doing better than the displayed stats indicated, this explains it nicely.

BTW: Crusader armies work wonders against swiss pikemen. Not much else does.

teutonic knights!

though i think those are one scenario only

based on what i've seen in this thread, i really don't think i'd have beaten that scenario without my matched pair of 14hp teutonic knight armies.

by the math here... that's 7/4/3.

i wish i'd had c3c armies for my last big game, which focused on a series of immense land battles, featuring about half a dozen (maybe more) 4xcav armies. i kicked enough ass as was!

[Dominae]

Do you guys miss the fact that MGLs cannot rush all Wonders?


Dominae

[Thoth]

No. I like the change. I think it helps balance building with warmongering. In previous versions of Civ 3 you could either invest 600 sheilds and a lot of turns in a wonder race or take those 600 sheilds and build a military which would often turn into a leader or two. It's now a choice betwen guns and butter rather than guns for butter.