Agriculture = Ultimate ICS trait = Too Powerful?

[Dominae]

Saint Marcus, I think you're confusing "useless" with "not the best".

A few posts up you made it clear that you play Egypt almost exclusively becaust they have what you consider to be the best traits. This may very well be true. But this does not mean that Expansionist (say) is a useless trait; many players have used Expansionist to great effect in numerous PBEM games I've had the chance to play in or witness.

By your rating system, if Immortals is the best UU, then all other UUs, like Riders, Jags and Sipahi are "useless".

My point is that you cannot select what you think is the best trait, UU or whatever and call all the others "useless". One of the aims in C3C was to make all the traits relatively useful (in comparison to one another other). This is one of the reasons why Industrious was cut down to size. There will surely a new "best" trait in C3C (say, Agricultural, since you seem convinced of this), but nothing on the level of "the new Industrious".


Dominae

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
possibly, give them the ability to build curraghs, but other civs can't.

possibly, give the amphibious assault bonus to seafaring civs, and not others.

possibly, ship repairs (like it works with ground units).

esp the curraghs seem perfect. just like exp civs can build scouts, they can build curraghs for early exploration. and since this benefit could be rather powerful, you could drop the extra commerce bonus.

What's the point of scouts then if you can build warriors? Most players build a warrior as their first unit to send out to explore. This warrior despite having one move can pretty much explore a huge swath of land at first, send 2 or 3 and you see what I mean. However, that doesn't mean expansionist is bad because there are advantages to the scout which warriors don't have, somthing along this line is given to seafaring civs but I'm not sure if that's been revealed yet.

Seems pretty useless to budge you from your belief that seafaring is a bad trait. In that case, what prevents you from not playing with a non-seafaring civ? Your fondness of Egypt makes me think you like certain traits and stick with them for the most part. Part of the beauty of this game is that most people will be particulary fond of certain trait or trait combo. I love Ind/Sci in PTW, more than Ind/Rel which is considered by many to be the best combo. In C3C people will find different combos to hate and love, and since they are more balanced it won't be a matter of simply choosing the trait besides industrial that is best.

[statusperfect]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
But granted, it's a killer trait for archipelago maps (just as the exp trait is great for pangea and crappy for archipelago).

I've never underrstood why exp is crappy on archipelago.

1. You will find out earlier that you are on an island.

2. No other exp civ can get those goody huts before you.

[joncnunn]

With the additional civ traights, on the regular and small sized maps, it will be much more likely that you are the only player in the game with at least one of your traights.

This would allow you if your a Seafaring civ near the coast and built the Great Lighthouse to have 5 movement point ships while everyone else is stuck at the 3 movement point level.

At the very least, AIs with the Seafaring civs near coasts will have huge early game advantage of the AIs without the seafaring traight near the coast, with the AI unwilling to chance losing a Galley exploring and the numerous times I've seen it possible for a 4 MP naval unit to safely cross from off the coast of one landmass to off the coast of the neighboring landmass where a 3 MP naval unit would have to risk sinkage. (And therefere the AI would try)

[Guynemer]

Pardon me, I've been away from Civ3 for quite a while...

What, exactly, is RCP?

[Louis XXIV]

Ring City Placement. Place your cities exactly the same distance from your capital and they will have the same corruption (and form a ring).

When you run out of room on your first ring, make a second ring of cities that has the same corruption.

[Panag]

Re: Agriculture = Ultimate ICS trait = Too Powerful?

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
IMHO, Civ3 was already quite a game of ICS-ing. But now with Agriculture, it gets even worse. Extra food means faster pop growth means more settlers can be build means even more expansion.

I know which civs I'll play as. ICS-ing all the way.

hi ,

extra settlers is one thing , having the military units to protect them is an other thing , .....

have a nice day

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Louis XXIV
Ring City Placement. Place your cities exactly the same distance from your capital and they will have the same corruption (and form a ring).

When you run out of room on your first ring, make a second ring of cities that has the same corruption.

Merci. So how is this being changed in C3C?

[sabrewolf]

this exploit has been removed... i guess they'll still all have the same corruption level, but all a bit more than before.

[GhengisFarb™]

Actually I think they have a ranking system to rank cities that are the same distance. Probably date of founding or something. so four cities on the first ring would still count a city closest 1, city second closest, city third closest, etc.

[OPD]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
Actually I think they have a ranking system to rank cities that are the same distance. Probably date of founding or something. so four cities on the first ring would still count a city closest 1, city second closest, city third closest, etc.

Don't make me build all my cities in the same turn :shake fist:

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by OPD
Don't make me build all my cities in the same turn :shake fist:

So, how should cities be ranked??
If solely by distance you have the RCP; if also by time we'll have people bring it back by building cities equal distance AND at the same time!

Perhaps corruption/waste should be allocated by age of the city. Too new, and there is corruption; too old, and "the machine" has taken over and there is lots of graft; "middle age," just right (things are established, but not too established).

Or maybe just sort of random, regardless of distance (but not uniform as in communism), GRADUALLY going up and down as a city goes through different phases. Too many foreigners and corruption is higher, ....

[Arrian]

Waiting to build a ring of cities all at once would be counterproductive in the extreme.

Perhaps corruption/waste should be allocated by age of the city. Too new, and there is corruption; too old, and "the machine" has taken over and there is lots of graft; "middle age," just right (things are established, but not too established).

Don't make me raze and rebuild my own cities!

-Arrian

[Dominae]

Ranking cities by "date" does not necessarily mean that all cities founded on the same turn are ranked equally. A far simpler way of doing it is to rank cities in the order in which they were founded. So if you found 5 cities in the same turn at equal distance from the capital, the fifth one will probably suffer more Corruption than the first one.

Does that sound about right?


Dominae

[joncnunn]

I agree with Dominae on how RCS exploit was most likely removed.