Agriculture = Ultimate ICS trait = Too Powerful?

[KenderBane]

Actually, I'd have to say that America would be Industrious and Scientific.

And if they had it as a Civ trait, I'd add "Adolescent".

But that is a poitical statement that doesn't really belong in a gaming forum. Whoops, I already said it.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by player1


Well, Industrial trait did get toned down (50% instead 100% worker bonus).

Well, that's news to me. Wow. Have they tweaked any of the other traits too, or just industrial?

Hmm... 50%

Road on flatlands: still 2 turns?
Mines on flatlands: 4 turns now, not 3?
Irrigation: 3 turns, not 2?
Forest chopping: 8 turns, not 5 (7.5 rounded up)?

That's a pretty big change. I think it's enough to re-open the "best trait" debate. Which is the point, of course: balance.

-Arrian

[Dominae]

That's right, Arrian.

Now, let the debate begin!

(Of course, Seafaring and Agricultural may be up there, so perhaps the debate should wait until Conquests goes gold.)


Dominae

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by Arrian
hmm... 50%

Road on flatlands: still 2 turns?
Mines on flatlands: 4 turns now, not 3?
Irrigation: 3 turns, not 2?
Forest chopping: 8 turns, not 5 (7.5 rounded up)?

That's a pretty big change. I think it's enough to re-open the "best trait" debate. Which is the point, of course: balance.

interesting analysis.
this may change my opinion of industrial from a "must-have" to a "nice-to-have"...

[Saint Marcus]

Religious is more powerful too now, with Improved Communism, and new governement types.

[joncnunn]

Well, Religious is marginally so if you think Religious players are likely to switch from Monarchy to Fuedalism before switching to Republic. (Fuedalism is currently adviable about the time that a Religious civ would switch from Monarchy to Republic, and note that both Fuedalism and Republic have some War Werrious)

The improved Communism aspect doesn't really apeal to the Religious switching of govts in the middle of a war, because it take several turns to build that 2nd Forbidden Palace.

[jkelly]

Dominae,

I have a hard time imagining that Seafaring is going to prove to be all that useful, except on very water-logged maps.

[Nor Me]

jkelly,

Really? Needing Printing Press for communication trading will make Seafaring interesting even on the continents setting.

It shouldn't be as good as the other traits on that except if you're aiming for a fast military vicory and the crossing is right or if you were going to be behind in tech for a long time.

[Arrian]

Seafaring and Expansionist both get boosts from the changes to contact & map trading (contact now with printing press, maps now with navigation). Scouts & fast boats are going to be quite valueable.

I was reading the thread over on Civfanatics that lists all the "known" features/changes in Conquests, and there were several things that jumped out at me.

The first was the map/contact trading.
The second was the scientific great leader conditions:

-chance of getting a scientific GL each time you are first to discover a tech (still wondering whether you have to actually research it, or if exp civs getting techs from huts get a shot at a leader)
-chance is increased if your civ is scientific (!)
-sci GLs can rush wonders =OR= be used to boost scientific output in all of your cities by 25% for 20 turns (mini GA).

I can see myself playing around with Germany some more (sci/mil... oh my).

-Arrian

[Saint Marcus]

being the first to discover a tech, and thus getting a SGL, is extremely difficult on Deity. I don't think it's a good Deity-level attribute for the player.

And since they toned down Industrious, I'll play an Agr-Rel civ (instead of the Ind-Rel civ, Egypt).

[asleepathewheel]

I'm wondering if on the lower levels, you can just roll the sci great leaders.

Ex:

you discover a tech, get a leader
use that leader to boost sci by 25%
industrial age, probably getting a tech every 8-10 turns, lowered by leader
you get maybe 3 techs during the sci age, get another leader.
wash repeat

I'm guessing that you can only use one sci leader for a sci golden age, that you can't get like a 50% bonus due to overlap.



This will have huge, huge implications on the game. Your prebuilds for leo's etc will be undone if the ai that gets the tech first gets lucky with a leader and rushes it.

[Dominae]

Never mind.

[OPD]

Rel and Sci are both looking really cool now.

In the stlye of a pompus fashion designer..
I think Rel is the next big thing, Agricultural is the new Industrious, Scientific is the new Mllitaristic, Commercial is on the way back (with no rcp), Sea-faring is the new Expantionist and Industrious and Millitaristic are yesterday's news.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Dominae
Never mind.

Shame on you Dominae!

Wonder what this post held.

[Saint Marcus]

Scientific is still pretty weak, especcially on higher levels.

Rel is up (more govs)
Exp is up (map/comm trading comes later)
Ind is down (slower workers)
Sci is up (SGL)
Com is up (no RCP)
Mil stays the same

Agr seems very powerful
Sea only good on archipelago maps. Otherwise it's fairly weak.