Agriculture = Ultimate ICS trait = Too Powerful?

[OPD]

Not if the extra food from the city square present at the start.

4 food from the cow plus 3 in the city square

I think I'm going to assume that the extra food in the city square doesn't kick in untill size 7

[Dominae]

You only get 4 Food from the Cattle once it gets Irrigation. It's only the city centre tile that does not suffer from the despotic tile penalty.

2 (Grassland) + 2 (Cattle) - 1 (Despotism) = 3
3 (Cattle) + 3 (Centre) - 2 (Pop) = 4


Dominae

[OPD]

ah I see :bonk:

A bit confused perhpas, I understood it to mean all tiles do not suffer teh -1 penalty if next to water.

That would have been cool.

So they only get desert as plains, cheaper aquaducts etc and +1 food?

In this case it's kinda cancelled out should you get a relatively poor start location. A grassland cow is better than +1 in the city square.

[Dominae]

Every start without a Grassland Cattle is "poor"?!


Dominae

[OPD]

Yeah but perhaps your neighbour with 2 cows will be laughing at your agricultural trait if you only have 1 cow. Especially when he has them both irrigated before you with his industrial worker.

-1 food at 3 rather than 2 under Despo would have been cool for agricultural, irrigating bonus GL

Perhaps agricultural will have more chance of a better start, I guess it's possible if sea-faring is more likely to start on coast. That would make it powerful.

[Saint Marcus]

This certainly wasn't true with Conquests testing. While technical testing is really important, playability was a major focus of most of the beta testing.

Our beta testers included a lot of rabid Civers debating every tiny playability point

I stand corrected. Conquests seem to be a rare exeption. In my experience as a professional playtester, and judging by most games (Including Civ3 vanilla & PTW by the looks of it), playability playtesting is hardly ever a priority. But I'm glad Conquests is different, I guess they did learn something from PTW.

So they only get desert as plains, cheaper aquaducts etc and +1 food?

As said, perfect for ICS (c, t, t, c), or at least extremely rapid expansion. Unballancing, it seems.

[KenderBane]

Everything else aside, I'm hoping that none of the new 'standard' civs are both agricultural AND industrial.

Fast pop growth + Fast production = OUCH!

That combo will be tough to stop even if its UU sucks.

[Tiberius]

One of the old civs could be agr-ind, too. They are reshuffling all the civs based on the new traits (maybe not all of them, but certainly some).

[OPD]

+1 food isn't really unbalancing, no equalization of start locations is. As initail food has such an impact on the game.

I'd still rather have a cow than be agricultural.
Too much is dependant, if you have alot of fresh water it could be potent, but I guarentee anytime I play as Agri there won't be too much water around.
Cheap aquaducts? If you have to build an aqua then you didn't even get your +1 at the start. I suppose cheap granaries was too unbalancing?

Agricultural doesn't look too hot imo,
With Industrial declining perhaps the Babylonians are the way of the future, if they keep the same traits that is.

[OPD]

Cheap aqua is a nice touch though

I suppose all citys with +1 was perhaps too powerful so cities w/o the +1 get this as compensation.

[WarpStorm]

Originally posted by KenderBane
Everything else aside, I'm hoping that none of the new 'standard' civs are both agricultural AND industrial.

At least one of the Civs has each combination of traits.

[Kuciwalker]

Everything else aside, I'm hoping that none of the new 'standard' civs are both agricultural AND industrial.

I'd bet Americans are.

[player1]

Originally posted by KenderBane
Everything else aside, I'm hoping that none of the new 'standard' civs are both agricultural AND industrial.

Well, Industrial trait did get toned down (50% instead 100% worker bonus).

[Myrddin]

I'd bet Americans are.

I would assume that the Americans will remain Expansionist, as will the Russsians. After that it is quite difficult to identify who will be expnsionist

[joncnunn]

Well, Russia isn't known for Farming or Seafaring, so Russia's traights likely to remain as they currently are.

Well, a real world America would have Industrial, Farming, Expansionist, Seafaring, Commerical, and Scientific. But that would make them no fun to play. (Too easy)

Most likely, America will be Industrial & Farming.