Early Landing Comparison Game #3

[Scouse Gits]

Large Map Save

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SG(2)

[Elephant]

I don't know if I'm going to make the deadline for #3; Saturday may be a wash depending on the weather.

I am nearing 1000BC right now, hurting for money but trying to get trading going. Early game summary:

Trade: 2350BC
Marco Polo: 1900BC
Republic: 1500BC

I tried a new variant of going for Trade first (Bro/Alp/Cur/CoL/Tra) and building Marco Polo as quickly as possible (actually could have been a little earlier by sacrificing a city build, but I needed the fourth). At 1900BC nobody else had Monarchy or Republic, but Lit was available from one civ and CerBur from three. I could have gone for immediate Monarchy, but I promised to try Early Republic and I liked the possibilities of the river system. The techs that were available from the AI were Cer, Hor, Lit, Map, Mas, Mys, PT, Pot, War, Whe, and Wri. I was working on Write at the time, so I took that as well as Map, Lit, Mys, and Cer. This set up a situation where I could select Philosophy as my next tech (I had 70 beakers already in the bag), with a freebie Republic and a next selection of Medicine. I then monkeyed with my beaker production a little bit to get Philosophy at the end of 1500, so I could do an OEDO revolt to Republic. The problem was that I was not ready with Temples yet, so everything else had to stop (except for getting a boat in the water) to build them, and I was pretty much out of gold. A 5th city was built before Republic, which led to some scrambling of Warriors and Elvi as the extra red face hit two existing cities. I am now trying to get the first two caravan deliveries overseas before 1000BC. The next few are going to be reserved for Shakes, and I am trying to decide between the two 4-special sites for the SSC. 55,71 has ocean access and a Whale; 59,69 has the nice river system and a city at each of the three deltas. Decisions, decisions...

EDIT: Oh yes, KeyCiv contact 1900BC (in fact, All Civs contacted, and Vikings were Supreme)

[Zenon]

ELCG 3 Large Map
1415 AD Landing

Governments
Monarchy 1850 BC
Republic 60 AD
Democracy 700 AD

Wonders
MPE 775 BC
Lighthouse 700 BC
Colossus 200 BC
ST 60 AD
Copernicus 280 AD
Isaac's 560 AD
Darwin's 880 AD
SETI 1220 AD
Apollo 1360 AD

SSC stats
size 8 160 AD
size 12 240 AD
size 21 660 AD
max. sizen 25 in 1060 AD

Techs
Trade 1000 BC
Invention 400 AD
Railroad 860 AD
Automobile 1060 AD
Nuclear Power 1240 AD
Computers 1220 AD
Flight 1260 AD
Space Flight 1340 AD

Key civ contact 775 BC

AC arrival 1415 AD

A difficult game. Less than average terrain, an isolated home continent and AI`s not in good trading distance. The Spanish were to close (the map size factor really hurts when it takes out the profit you need to get an early rush buy economy running) and at the same time difficult to reach. The way to the Greeks had Continent 1 in between, as I found out shipping a caravan arround it for ages. The others were to far in the beginning. Building the Lighthouse was probably a good decision but more early ressources had to be spent on this. After trade I often set the science rate to zero, just to keep trade going and to build a few improvements. Then ST was delayed because the Chinese almost beat me to Colossus. On this map I didn´t want to go without it. So for a long time I had the feeling of constantly struggling against the circumstances. It seems, though, I was not the only one struggling with this game

Only after SSC growth (very late, too) and establishing trade lines both with the Spanish and the Greeks the game took on speed and went on easily. I even had 2 techs a turn after SETI without any delay to a quick start. There was cash left in the end and I could have sold a lot more improvements.

I post the launch sav, too. I´ll be happy if I don´t have to finish the last turns. More after a break

Zenon

[solo]

Zenon,

I think building the Lighthouse made a big difference and found myself wondering why I didn't do this after I had finished my game. So far you've done the best with this difficult map, even after some delay in building up your SSC. Well done!

[SCG]

eek! already starting game #4 and i haven't gotten much more than a good look at the starting point of game #3 Civ is turning into a spectator sport for me! I hope to eventually finish this one, just not sure when (and if you've been reading my posts in the succession game threads, you know that could be a while )

[Scouse Gits]

Very well played Zenon

Building the Lighthouse was an inspired move and must have boosted early trade on this awkward map.

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SG(2)

[rjmatsleepers]

Early Landing #3 - Large Map

Governments
Republic 825 BC
Democracy AD 1700

Wonders

ST AD 260
Copernicus AD 680
Isaac's AD 1620
Darwin's AD 1810
Apollo AD 1853

SSC stats
size AD 140
size 12 (forgot to write it down )
size 21 AD 1794 (max)

Techs
Trade 175 BC
Invention AD 1360
Railroad AD 1756
Automobile AD 1786
Nuclear Power AD 1808
Computers AD 1832
Flight AD 1800
Space Flight AD 1846


AC arrival AD 1881

Not a very exciting landing date, but not too much to report either. I had only made contact with 3 civs prior to building the apollo program. My SSC was stuck at size 18 for a long time through lack of food. I managed to block my SSC supply a couple of times because I delivered to a city that was demanding the goods insted of to the city with which I already had trade routes - I need to watch that in future. I was still receiving gifts from my allies while I was building the SS I have a more detaile log and other saves available in case anyone is interested.

RJM at Sleepers

[Grigor]

Well, I finished this one. I was trying to finesse the early monarchy for a short time before Republic, and I was able to get two wonders down by 1150bc, but then I lost the thread. My SSC had eternally blocked commodities from one careless turn and I neglected to grow the helpers so had the luxuries at 20 most of the game. I never had 1-turn science from beakers alone.

Summary Format

Governments
Monarchy 2450bc
Republic 725bc (discovered 1150bc)
Democracy 140ad
Communism/Fundamentalism --

Wonders
HG --
MPE 1150bc
ST 300bc
Colossus 1650bc
Copernicus 750bc
Isaac's 120ad
Leo's --
Michaelangelo's 960ad
Darwin's 620ad
SETI --
Apollo 1360ad

SSC stats
size 8 300bc
size 12 150bc
size 21 240ad
max. size 37 1420ad

Techs
Trade 1950bc (yes!)
Invention 100ad
Railroad 440ad
Automobile 880ad
Nuclear Power 1480ad
Computers 1180ad
Flight 1020ad
Space Flight 1320ad

Key civ contact 1150bc

AC arrival launch 1670 arrive 1706 -well-a bit of work to do on the endgame...


Nobody can read the stuffed saves from my mac, so I won't attach one.

[solo]

The comparison tables are ready for this game, so I'll post them. Thanks to the eight people posting their results in the medium map game and to 4 others who tried the difficult large map game.

Medium Map Comparison Table

(My apologies to players with names exceeding 5 characters, as only 5 spaces are available in each column of the table.)

The medium map game showed the best results yet, partly because all players are still tinkering with the system, trying to find the best way to play these games. The uncommonly good SSC site and the excellent layout helped produce 4 sub-1000 AD scores, the first ever in these games. All players showed improvement in this game.

[solo]

Large Map Comparison Table

I proved in this game that going for trade before a better form of government was not the best strategy, as my own date was beaten handily by SG(2) and Zenon. Zenon understood the limitations of this map best when deciding to build the Lighthouse wonder, and also showed that SSC growth can be delayed by using caravans for more trade early in the game.

[La Fayette]

Beautiful, as usual
Just one question: why is your key civ contact -800 on the large map, with Marco in -1450?

[Elephant]

I am still soldiering on, with ST built in 650BC, beginning WLTCD, got Cst & Eng, researching San. Roughly comparable to your Medium game, Solo, perhaps 3 or 4 turns behind; I went for Trade and Marco Polo first, then Republic; you went for Early Republic, then Trade. I doubt I will be able to finish by next weekend. I always do poorly in mid-late game anyway.

Do you have saves of your Medium game, say 3000, 2500, 2000, 1500, 1000, 500BC, and 1AD? I'd like to compare more closely.

[Elephant]

My "lunchtime analysis" on the comparisons between your tech path and mine is that the benefits of getting Marco Polo a little earlier do not outweigh the liabilities of delaying my government switch. I took a few extra techs from my first round of Marco Polo trades, which increased the "cost" of finishing Republic (but brought in Philosophy, which set up Medicine nicely), but getting Rep in 1500 lost out on 10 turns of extra trade. I think I will try Early Republic/Early Trade next round.

[solo]

SCG,

I was wondering where you were, and too bad about missing the deadline. You should know that I have used the "switch" again to get a supply of Uranium in my SSC, so I have become devoted to using it. I also had an instance of it working on a non-cycle turn, which mystified me a bit. About 10% of the time I try it, I end up liking and keeping the result.

Monk,

Too bad to see you missed out on this one. I hope things are going okay with you.

La Fayette,

When MPE was built my key civ, the Mongols, had been learning Iron Working, a tech I wanted, so I did not want to slow them down by contacting them. It turns out that the Russians, also working on that tech, learned it first in 800 BC. So I traded with them for the tech and made first contact with the key civ right afterwards to give them Iron Working, so as not to waste their accumulated beakers.

Elephant,

I have collected the saves you requested and will attach them below. Going to trade first did not work in the large map game, since there was a big delay getting out of Despotism. I lost 12 to 16 turns of being in a better government to Zenon and SG(2), respectively, which probably cost me the half dozen turns I came in behind at the end. With better MPE luck, this trade first idea might have paid off. On a medium map, where research goes faster, going to trade first may still not be a bad idea, as seems to be the case in your own game.

[Elephant]

Thanks. I'll take a look and comment later this week.

Best wishes in #4. Looks like the competition is heating up. I am glad that Marco Polo is getting more appreciation: the neglected art of Diplomacy! Wish I could put RL on hold and catch up with you guys...