Early Landing Comparison Game #3

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by La Fayette
I go on playing without helper programs ... with poor results compared with the best players


Very slow start, several strong barb attacks in BC years, growth of the SSC delayed to AD years, 'satisfying' growth (1 tech/turn) between 500AD and 1200AD, many unwanted techs in the endgame, oh well!

After discovering fusion power I usually:

a) set tax to 100%
b) sell librariies, etc.

All the gold gets used to rush freights to build SS parts. Clearly you don't do this - why not?

RJM at Sleepers

[Heerscher]

Here's my game summary. Since I didn't have much time to play (this game is played in just two days ) I could not made a detailed log. For ELG 4 I hope to make a detailed log, but don't count on it since I generally only have time to play at night

After trying the large map I restarted on the medium, since it seemed easier to me, after reading about solo's experiences on the large. It didn't result in a great landing date but since it is my first diety win on a customized map (I used to play the world map all the time), I am fairly happy with it.

GOVERNMENTS

Monarchy 1850 BC
Republic 325 BC
Democracy 940 AD
Fundamentalism 1867 AD

WONDERS

MPE 950 BC
Hanging Gardens 675 BC
Colossus 450 BC
Shake's 380 AD
Cope's 40 AD
Leo's 580 AD
Mike's 660 AD
Isaac's 1000 AD
Apollo 1830 AD

SSC STATS

size 8 40 AD
size 12 420 AD
size 21 1060 AD
max. size 27

TECHS

Trade 1300 BC
Invention 20 AD
Railroad 1260 AD
Automobile 1772 AD
Nuclear Power 1840 AD
Computers 1804 AD
Flight 1764 AD
Space flight 1828 AD

AC arrival 1916

Heerscher

[Heerscher]

Some comments on my game:

After a reasonable start, things started to slow down in the middle game. I could not deliver enough caravans, due to lack of production and my cities (except for my SSC) didn't grow enough, due to happiness problems.

[Heerscher]

Oops, something went wrong with my first post: it was not finished yet, but anyway:

1) I could not celebrate my helper cities and my colonie (Lindholm) up to size eight quickly enough through WLT*D's. Happiness problems started to decrease only after Mike's. I kept my luxeries generally at 30%. As a result of this, no city except for my SSC, reached the magic ten shields production. Caravan and trireme production was to low. I didn't rushbuy many caravans since this would decrease profits.

2) I messed up my spaceship

so I will read the thread about it in the Great Library more carefully for my next game.

3) I switched to democracy very late, since corruption levels were low and switching to democracy would only add up to my happiness problems, because triremes abroad would make two citizens unhappy. I could have rehomed them to my SSC, but that would ruin its production. I didn't have enough cash to rushbuy all of its needed buildings.

Heerscher

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers


After discovering fusion power I usually:

a) set tax to 100%
b) sell librariies, etc.

All the gold gets used to rush freights to build SS parts. Clearly you don't do this - why not?

RJM at Sleepers

I didn't do that because my SS was already on its way to AC when I discovered Fusion Power ((between 1500AD and 1750AD, one turn sooner means 10 years, against 4 years shorter flight time with Fusion for my ship).

[solo]

I finally finished my large map game, with a landing in 1535 AD, quite a contrast to the results with a medium map.
There was plenty of room for improvement here, and I expect some others playing this map may do a good bit better.

Without huts, large map games are considerably harder, since the AI are harder to reach and delivery payoffs on a large map are scaled down by 4/5. The fact that more cities are allowed before impacting happiness is pretty much nullified by the fact that none of these extra cities are free. They must be bribed away or built using settlers, and doing this takes time and resources away from the main task of landing early. Add on the higher research costs, and hutless large map games begin to present a real challenge and the optimal strategy for playing them is not at all obvious.

At the start, some black clicking told me I was located on a relatively small island, without easy access to any of the large land masses other than two small, neighboring islets (unless continent #1 was very close. I found out much later that it was). So I decided to research Trade first, even giving it more priority than a better form of government. To do well, I believed I needed Marco Polo’s as soon as I could get it built, so I took the chance that one of the AI might have Monarchy or Republic ready for a trade by that time. I was disappointed, since the best they had to offer was Ceremonial Burial. Since it would have been 4 more steps of research to get to Republic, it made sense to go to Monarchy first.

I was also delayed a few times by barb attacks, once near the beginning, when a potential settler had to be converted into a phalanx to protect my SSC. Later on, the barbs swooped in again and captured Viborg, one of my helpers. These were minor setbacks though, compared to the damage caused by some of my mid-game decisions. Off to a bad start already, I was not inspired to play my best, and delayed my SSC growth to size 21 for a long time when I made the mistake of researching Math-Astronomy ahead of Engineering-Sanitation.

The setup was not promising for early landings, as even the nearest AI were at a good distance, and the only way I could find to reach them early on with triremes was by making a detour along the southern ice cap. This effectively doubled the time it took to deliver caravans to the Spanish, Babylonians, and later on, to the Mongols. More resources had to go into building a fleet of triemes to speed up trade, and with so many boats and settlers to support, it made more sense to remain in Monarchy until Republic was needed for celebrations.

Later in the game, the larger scale presented by a large map game made it seem to take forever to set up useful colonies and implement an expeditious system of trade. Once a system of accelerated trade finally got established, delivery payoffs were quite substantial, but this was delayed almost beyond when it became useful. During most of the game, it was quite struggle earning enough to get the SSC and other cities up and running. Near the end, I had much more gold than I needed to do everything I wanted. The trouble is that it just took too long during this game to reach that point where income is no longer a problem. Almost 1000 gold was left over after building a space ship, gold that might have come in very handy earlier in the game.

So to conclude, there’s still a lot for me to learn about how to play well on large maps without huts. Below is the summary. I may not have time to type up and post a detailed log, since it came to well over 10 written pages.

ELG #3, Large Map Game Summary

Monarchy – 1250 bc
Republic – 225 bc
Democracy – 940 ad

Marco Polo’s – 1450 bc
Shakespeare’s – 175 bc
Colossus – 400 bc
Copernicus – 320 ad
Newton’s – 600 ad
Michaelangelo’s – 840 ad
Darwin’s – 1120 ad
Apollo – 1500 ad

Size 8 – 75 bc
Size 12 – 20 ad
Size 21 – 580 ad
Max. size – 28 in 1300 ad

Key civ contact – 800 bc

Trade – 2000 bc
Invention – 580 ad
Railroad – 1060 ad
Automobile – 1260 ad
Nuclear Power – 1400 ad
Computers – 1420 ad
Flight – 1440 ad
Space Flight – 1500 ad

AC arrival – 1535 ad

I’m curious to see how some others fared. Attached is the save on the turn of the launch.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Heerscher

2) I messed up my spaceship

Look on the bright side - in the next game you will gain a lot of time just from building the space ship more efficiently.

I suspect you need to "unlearn" some of the techniques you use in a normal game. I notice that most of your cities have city walls and defensive units. Have faith, you really can avoid war with the AI civs by tech gifting.

RJM at Sleepers

[Cliff]

I finally got some time to finish my Power Democracy approach to this early landing game and I was able to beat the best landing dates of comparison game #2 which was my goal. I landed on AC in 955AD.

I will (maybe) post a detailed log later but for now I will just post the summary and the save. After launch I sent out some troops and killed off everyone. A handful of respawned civs with a size 1 city or a settler remain in the game.

Governments
Monarchy 2250BC
Republic 60AD
Democracy 460AD
Communism/Fundamentalism Not used

Wonders
HG 1200BC
MPE 1500BC
Pyramids 225BC
ST Not built
Colossus 125BC
Copernicus Built by Spanish
Isaac's Not built
Leo's 420AD
Magellan's 560AD
Michaelangelo's 80AD
JSB 200AD
Darwin's 700AD
SETI Not built
Apollo 920AD

SSC stats
size 8 200AD
size 12 360AD
size 21 660AD
max. size 22

Techs
Trade 1750BC
Invention 400AD
Railroad 700AD
Automobile 760AD
Nuclear Power 840AD
Computers 860AD
Flight 880AD
Space Flight 900AD

Key civ contact 1500BC

AC arrival 955AD

[solo]

Cliff,

A nice job fulfilling your goal of a sub 1000 AD landing, and welcome to the club! You also have the distinction of doing this without building Copernicus or Isaac's!

In the large map start for #3, your approach might have been the best one to use. I'll be interested in any changes you make to your strategy if you decide to participate in the next medium map game, which will begin shortly.

La Fayette,

You knocked off another 100 years from your last result without really trying. I detect more energy spent on your new records in the scenarios. Nice job there!

Heerscher,

Not bad for your first game, and I bet you will do a lot better in following games if you decide to continue playing. I hope you enjoyed this style of play enough to try a few more games.

[Heerscher]

RJM at Sleepers,

All the city-walls and the huge stacks of defensive units were built after my space-ship was launched. Since it needed 30 years to reach AC, I had a lot of time to built up a military. In most cities factories were built before Space flight (I didn't have much cash, so I figured I could at least speed up space ship parts production by increasing production). So after my launch all of my cities were pretty productive and I killed time during the journey of my spaceship, by fighting big naval wars with the other AI civs, all of them with great results. However, they only sued for peace if I captured a city, or killed a lot of their land units.

Solo,

I will definitly participate in ELG 4! I expect to learn a lot of these games, probably more than I ever learnt in my time before I 'discovered' Apolyton. It's really great to see such a lively and skilled community, still playing with great enthousiam a game that's nearly 8 years old! Never seen that before.

[Scouse Gits]

Medium Map

Alpha Centauri 996
I am pleased to record a sub Millennium landing (just) ... even though I'm only fourth at time of writing. Still plodding through the post launch turns!

Things sagged during the middle game. Brief details follow. I will post more thoughts later.

Governments
Revolutions to:
Monarchy in 2450BC
Republic in 725BC
Democracy in 220AD

Wonders
Hanging Gardens 1050BC
Marco Polo's Embassy 750BC (Key Civ contact)
Colossus in 625BC
Shakespeare's Theatre in 275BC
Copernicus' Observatory in 100BC
Isaac Newton's College in 220AD
Michelangelo's Chapel 380AD
Darwin's Voyage in 520AD
Apollo Program in 880AD

Events
Kaupang 8 in 550BC
Kaupang 12 in 175BC
Kaupang 21 in 160AD
Kaupang 31 at time of launch

Trade in 1900BC (1st Trade Route in 900BC)
Invention 160AD
Railroad in 480AD
Automobile in 600AD
Nuclear Power 660AD
Computers in 760AD
Flight in 780AD
Space Flight in 860AD
Launch 15-1-1-1-1-1 in 960AD

AC 996AD

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SG(2)

[Scouse Gits]

Large Map

Alpha Centauri 1456
As ever I built a mean and flimsy ship held together with string and chewing gum that takes forever to land! More details to follow.

Governments
Revolutions to:
Monarchy in 2050BC
Republic in 225BC
Democracy in 860AD

Wonders
Hanging Gardens 775BC
Marco Polo's Embassy 575BC (Key Civ contact)
Colossus in 350BC
Shakespeare's Theatre in 140AD
Copernicus' Observatory in 380AD
Isaac Newton's College in 540AD
Michelangelo's Chapel 800AD
Darwin's Voyage in 940AD
SETI in 1260AD
Apollo Program in 1380AD

Events
Kaupang 8 in 125BC
Kaupang 12 in 80AD
Kaupang 21 in 580AD
Kaupang 24 at time of launch

Trade in 875BC (1st Trade Route in 350BC)
Invention 720AD
Railroad in 880AD
Automobile in 1060AD
Computers in 1240AD
Nuclear Power 1280AD
Flight in 1300AD
Space Flight in 1360AD
Launch 15-1-1-1-1-1 in 1420AD

ETA on AC 1456AD

---------------------------

SG(2)

[solo]

SG(2),

Another member of the sub 1000 AD club in good standing! Nice job!

As predicted, my large map date is no longer the best. Now it is the worst! I'll be interested in seeing your city layout when your save is posted, plus further details about both games.

Beware, though! I will have another large map start accompanying game #4, and your days as top dog in that department might be numbered!

[Scouse Gits]

Thanks solo ... I'm only top dog until somebody posts a better date!

I've played most of my Civ on large or giga maps so early empire building or semi-sleazing is second nature. What I must learn is the correct strategy for each map and size of world.

I am several turns away from landing but I will email you the save during the launch year.

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SG(2)

[Scouse Gits]

Medium Map Save

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SG(2)