Early Landing Comparison Game #3

[solo]

Cliff,

I hope you find time to continue. You've built quite an empire in so short a time, and still might cruise to a pre-1000 AD landing, something most others could not even accomplish using huts. If I'm not mistaken, I think SG(2)'s earlier large map game with huts was the only one using a similar approach that achieved a landing before 1000 AD.

SG(2),

I have started on my large map game and do not expect much. Although the SSC site is a good one, helper locations are just adequate, and things are going much slower so far than in the medium map game.

You will see the difference when you start playing your medium map game, and I bet I see some competitive landing dates from you and others. That start was just about ideal for making early landing attempts.

[rjmatsleepers]

Governments
Republic 1650 BC
Democracy AD 1540

Wonders
ST ~AD 740
Copernicus AD 300
Isaac's AD 1560
Darwin's AD 1740
Apollo AD 1818

SSC stats
size 8 AD 780
size 12 AD 1000
size 21 AD 1180
max. size 23 (AD 1788)

Techs
Trade 725 BC
Invention AD 1380
Railroad AD 1660
Automobile AD 1752
Nuclear Power AD 1784
Computers AD 1794
Flight AD 1780
Space Flight AD 1808

AC arrival AD 1850

Abbreviated log

Medium map; no techs; no huts

3950 BC Trondheim founded (59,69); start researching alphabet
3850 BC Kaupang founded (55,65)
3000 BC Uppsala founded (64,66)
2650 BC Hladier founded (48,60)
2450 BC pop 100k (1st)
2050 BC Toynbee says we are 3rd most advanced Civ
1650 BC Viking Republic
1350 BC pop 210k (1st)
500 BC Arhus founded (70,68)
250 BC Pop 310k (4th)
AD 1 Only 16 techs - my worse start for ages!
AD 160 pop 410k (5th)
AD 340 pop 520k (5th)
AD 380 Roskilde founded (60,52)
AD 1600 The Udall founded (57,75)
AD 1730 Lindholm founded (67,71)
1840 launch arrival due 1855
AD 1845 Gibbon says we are the most advanced civ!

Comments

I got off to a poor start - some bad strategy; some bad luck; some bad tactical choices and a few really stupid mistakes. The saving grace (which will apply to us all) was the repeating supply of hides from the SSC. It gave me over 300 beakers and (net) more than 100 gold per turn. So no competition for Solo, but at least it was a new personal best for a no tech, no hut game.

RJM at Sleeoers

[rjmatsleepers]

And the save

RJM at Sleepers

[Scouse Gits]

Good game RJM. 1850 without huts/starting techs is a fine result. Pity you missed the Colossus because with it you would have been landing much sooner. During the early years you must found the initial half dozen cities quckly to boost science and to provide the caravan building power for wonders. I aim for six cities by 2000BC.

--------------------------

SG(2)

[solo]

RJM,

I agree with SG(2), since you've knocked another 50 years off your previous best. At this pace you'll be under 1000 AD by ELG #20, which would be about the number of times it would take any newcomer to do as well. You've zeroed in on many things you can change in the next game and with more practice you will get the hang of getting earlier dates.

If you want some more frustration, though, try the large map game. My own attempt is going poorly so far.

[Zenon]

I finished my game on the medium map with a 775 AD landing, a better date than I expected.

I did not use the Trondheim site as SSC. When I discovered the 3 whales site on the Eastern tip of the home continent I decided to add a different approach to this ELCG and determined Hladir to be my SSC site. It had 3 whales specials, 7 grassland and 10 ocean fields. In my view it had 3 advantages: very little work needed with early growth potential, good trade until size 21 and access to the ocean.The disadvantage was of cause the lower trade base compared to fully developed Trondheim. But the real strength of Trondheim would only come with automobile. By then, I hoped, Iwould allready have an advance. What I could not forsee at the time was that Trondheim also had a better trading distance to the Spanish. Looking back it was the support from Trondheim as a strong secondary city that kept my trade going. I did´n´t think I chose a better site, but a possibly adequate site that was well worth the experience.

I had a good game. I could follow my plan without any disturbances and avoided the mistakes I made last time. I also didn´t suffer from barb attacks. In fact, this time I didn´t see any barbs the whole game , not even an early barb leader. By the way, I am also in favour of keeping the raging hordes setting.

Here is the required log. The detailed log will follow soon.

Game Summary

Monarchy - 2250 BC
Republic – 825 BC
Democracy – 25 BC

MPE – 975 BC
ST – 525 BC
Colossus – 225 BC
Copernicus – 100 BC
Isaac Newton’s – 20 AD
Apollo – 720 AD

Size 8 – 450 BC
Size 12 – 350 BC
Size 21 – 125 BC
Max. size – 26 in 340 AD

Key civ contact – 975 BC
Trade – 1200 BC
Invention – 125 BC
Railroad – 140 AD
Automobile – 360 AD
Flight - 480 AD
Computers - 540 AD
Nuclear Power – 620 AD
Space Flight – 640 AD
AC arrival – 775 AD

Zenon

[Zenon]

Solo,

congratulations to this spledid game. It´s not only the stunning landing date that is remarkable, it´s also the (Solo) strategy combining early republic with (very) early MPE. I will give up Monarchy and try this in my next game.

By the way, you might have a serious problem in the next games to beat yout own record

Zenon

[solo]

Zenon,

A fine result with early Monarchy! I also considered the 3 whale site for an SSC, because there was so much to do to develop the other, but as you noted, my SSC didn't look back once superhighways were in place.

Oh, and welcome to the pre-1000 AD landing club! I think some of the others will be joining us soon, and will also be surprised by how fast their games go. This setup was about ideal for early landing attempts. I don't expect us to be challenging these surprising dates for quite some while.

[Scouse Gits]

Brilliant game Zenon! I'm glad someone is keeping track of solo! My game seemed to dip in the middle, but I will just be able to join the sub-millennium club.

--------------------

SG(2)

[Zenon]

ELCG 3 Medium Map, Wikings, 775AD Landing

3950 Trondheim
3900 Kaupang
3850 CB
3500 Alphabet
3100 Reading
2800 Uppsala
2750 Hladir, a 3 whale site with 7 grassland and 10 ocean fields is an interesting alternative as SSC
2250 Monarchy , Aarhus
1900 after a long deliberation I decide to go for Hladir as SSC. Comparison of the 2 sites:
Trade: the differences would only come after celebrating beyond size 6 or 7. Hladir could add 2 or 3 (10 ocean fields) beakers for every citizen but would suffer from corruption. Trondheim would add 2 beakers for every new citizen but add 8 more once bridges had been build (9 river fields). Fully developed Trondheim would have appr. 10 % more in trade base, but Hladir might be able to go to size 21 earlier. After superhighways Trondheim would go through the roof with 2 techs a turn possible.
Work needed in settler turns Trondheim: 155 + mining Hladir: 36
Other: Trondheim: magnetism before democracy, may be explosives too,
Hladir: Courthouse, Harbour, Triremes can be rehomed for smooth transition of ship lines, Trondheim as a strong second city
I thought that Hladir could compete until building superhighways. It might have an early advantage in growth. It would save resources in settlers. I was too curious to know if the Hladir approach would give a reasonable result. It would also give an interesting comparison to the other games.

Strategy: early SSC growth, trade and ship lines, shortening rennaissance, getting one tech a turn as soon as possible and after superhighways using the appr. 20 turns to prepare a quick launch, I just regretted I had allready chosen Monarchy. ELCG 3 was perfect for early Republic.

1800 Bronce Working
1700 Viborg,
1650 Roskilde
1550 Currency, Zulus, exchange Mysticism, Peace
1200 Trade
975 MPE, no techs available that I could use at the moment, Russians peace maps, Zulu maps, Spanish demand gold war, Persians war, English peace no maps, Indians peace maps
950 Literacy
875 Spanish Peace maps, Persians peace maps
825 Republic, first delivery, dye Roskilde Zimbabwe (d) 136 gold
800 silk to Zimbabwe (d) 200g
775 Philosophy, Banking
700 wine to Cordoba (d) 206 g
675 Medicine, dye Trondheim Madrid (d) 202g, trade for Masonry,
650 Building
600 hides Trondheim Cordoba (d) 206g,
575 Mathematics
525 Shakes, beads to Madrid 140g, exchange The Wheel
475 Hides Trondheim SSC (d) 64 g, SSC unblocked
450 SSC size 8, Astronomy, a ship line is now in place allowing deliveries in 2 turns
400 dye to Cordoba (d)168g
375 wine to Cordoba (d) 364g, my persian friends develop Engineering just in time, exchange Engineering, now I do get to Sanitation in time
350 Sanitation, SSC size 12, Trondheim size 6, gold Aarhus Cordoba (d) 398g, Cordoba is an excellent trading destination, close enough for the ship line and with changing demands of gold, wine, dye and hides
300 University, hides Trondheim Cordoba (d)308g, dye Kaupang Cordoba 156g, SSC Library, exchange Ceramics, can´t wait, I need a harbour
275 Seafaring,
225 Colossus,
200 SSC Harbour, just in time to continue celebration
175 Economics, SSC University, wine Viborg Cordoba (d) 250g, dye to Cordoba (d) 340g
125 Invention, SSC size 21, SSC Courthouse, wine to Cordoba 470g,
100 Copernicus, advances every 2 turns now, with the SSC complete (only NC missing) I hope for a short Rennaissance period, Discover Democracy
75 Navigation
25 Democracy, exchange Iron Working
AD
1 Theory of Gravity, beads to Cordoba 200g
20 Physics, Newton´s
40 Bridge Building
80 Magnetism, Galleons are added to the ship lines. dye to Cordoba 202 g
100 Steam Engine
120 gold Trondheim Cordoba (d) 318g
140 Railways, gems to Madrid (d) 520g, Lindholm a colony close to the English
160 Gun Powder, dye to Cordoba 136g
180 Industrialization, Copper Roskilde Cordoba (d) 99g, beads to Cordoba 140g, Jorvik, a colony
200 Corporation, so far the strategy worked. Since invention I had only 1 turn without a tech advance. silk Trondheim Cordoba 79g, silk to SSC 79g,
220 Metallurgy, dye to London (d) 592g
240 Chemistry, Gold Trondheim Cordoba (d) 354g
260 Explosives, Spices Kaupang London (d) 336, beads to London 296
280 Electricity, gems Aarhus Nottingham (d) 246g, copper Viborg Cordoba (d) 146g, wine Uppsala York (d) 230g
300 Refinery, silk Trondheim Madrid (d) 468g, dye to Cordoba (d) 420g
320 Steel, exchange chivalry, dye Aarhus Cordoba (d) 184g, beads to London 304g, silk Kaupang London (d) 156g
340 Combustion, SSC size 26, dye to Cordoba (d) 420g, Trondheim Gold to Cordoba (d) 390g, Westness, a colony founded by the last remaining settler. He spend ages along the ship supply line and I never found time to send a ship to go for a good site. Trade had priority.
360 Automobile, SSC superhighways, Trondheim University, Spices Viborg to London (d) 256g, Jarrow, Skara, I add a few helper citys to start building caravans

The science beakers stopped just short of the second advance. But I couldn´t have upheld 2 techs a turn anyway. This is the week part of this SSC. With 966 Science Beakers at 100% it has approximately 30% less than the Trondheim site would have had. I will need 19 or 20 turns to Fusion power and will try to use this time to prepare a quick launch.

380 Leadership, gems Trondheim SSC 86g, SSC unblocked, Salt Lindholm SSC 169g
400 Electronics, Spanish develop Atomic Theory; tech bombing their key civ worked, dye to Cordoba (d) 666g, a double supply line connecting the SSC, three colonies, Cordoba, Nottingham, London and York is now complete, allowing constant 1 turn deliveries. With weak helper cities I need as many deliveries from the SSC and Trondheim as possible.
420 conscription, Trondheim superhighways, gold Trondheim Cordoba (d) 746g, SSC wonder bread, was blocked again, the last thing I need now is a constantly blocked SSC, Kaupang wonder bread doesn´t work, oil Jorvik SSC (d) 676g,
440 Tactics, dye Trondheim Cordoba (d) 528g, dye to London 476g
460 Mass Production, Spanish almost complete Darwins Voyage, I love my Spanish friends! I didn´t plan to build it myself, I will need all ressources for the spaceship, Trondheim wonder bread, gems London 466g, Spanish exchange Atomic Theory, give all techs
480 Machine Tools, Spanish develop Flight and Mobile Warfare , gold Trondheim Cordoba (d) 836g, dye London 386g, exchange Flight, loosing Colossus and diminishing trade was not my intention, but going for airports earlier will help to keep the trade going, I don´t think I will have problems with the tech pace. The trade beaker comparison now between the SSC and Trondheim (including the trade bonuses): 110 to 89!
500 Radio, dye Trondheim London 246g, gems London 256g, Ravning Enge, the last colony founded
520 Minitiarurization, SSC, Trondheim, 3 colonies airports, Lindholm SSC oil (d) 548g, Lindholm silk to Trondheim (d)440g Lindholm SSC beads 157g
540 Computers, dye Viborg Cordoba (d) 120g, gold Trondheim London 226g, dye to London 258g, silk Westness to Trondheim (d) 414g, silk Jorvik Trondheim (d) 467g
560 Advanced Flight, SSC laboratory, dye Jorvik SSC 176g
580 Nuclear Fission, dye Trondheim Madrid (d)436g, oil Trondheim SSC (d) 387g, a better result than some deliveries to the AI with a trading distance of 10 only, airports, superhighways and a qualified railway give a reasonable return. The reason I did this was to unblock both cities. I am quite often struggling with blocked commodities. With a population of 8 Trondheim has often brought better trade results than the SSC, both in own deliveries and commodities from the colonies. Without this strong second city I would have had a hard time
600 Rocketry, dye Trondheim Cordoba (d) 372g, dye to York (d) 548g
620 Nuclear Power, gems to London 266g, gold Trondheim London 234g, silk Ravning SSC 145g
640 Space Flight, Trondheim wonder bread, dye to Cordoba (d) 368g,
660 Laser, gold Trondheim Cordoba (d) 558g, dye to London 266g
680 Plastic, coal Ravning SSC (d) 434g, Trondheim wonder bread, exchange Polytheism
700 Superconductor
720 Apollo Program, gold Trondheim Cordoba (d) 558g
740 Fusion Power, a lonely scientist in Hladir completes this historical advance
760 Launch, 15 – 3 – 3 – 1 – 1 – 1
775 AC Landing

An interesting game. My strategy worked troughout the game, something I wish would happen more often. The SSC was a bit weaker than I thought, often blocked and sitting on a tiny grassland peninsula I got what I deserved: beads, dye, gems and occasionally wine. I was just glad it wasn´t stock fish. The trade distance was a disadvantage, too. On the other hand Trondheim was an exceptional second city. I didn´t count the trade returns but they must have been close to the SSC. The tech trades were better than average, too: Engineering, Chivalry, Atomic Theory and Flight do not come often. The best part was that I could develop the SSC in the AD years and hold a one tech a turn pace, missing only a single turn since invention.

Considering the approach I am quite content with the result.

Zenon

[Smash]

Well,I thought I would try this and some of the new solo techniques and, just like simgolf......

Ok.Went well at first.Built 4 cities quickly around the starting spot.All was well.Each city was giving 2 beakers and early research sped along.Built 3 more cities around the 3 whales and got everything connected with roads.Nailed the Republic discovery on 2050bc and my early Republic was up and running.
Next stop Trade.Built 2 camels out of my cap and sent them to SSC.Only got 1 route though.Built hides and wine.Happens sometimes.Don't know why.Should have heeded the omen.Built Marco's and tech trades were looking most promising as the AI had nicely filled in the gaps with stuff like masonry,map making,construction,seafaring and some other stuff.
About 2-3 turns later a red boat with archers lands near my 3 city whale neighborhood.
Now part of this early Republic is lean defense.Very lean.I had a dip,but no mula.So..those 3 cities were toast several turns later.
I'm not an early landing expert,but I'm fairly sure having your empire cut in half is not condusive to early landings

and so ended my high hopes and my game just after 1000bc.

[solo]

Zenon,

Thanks for that log, which provided a very interesting comparison between our two successful games. I'll really be interested in how you approach thigs in the next comparison game.

Smash,

You are right about 1/2 size empires!

In a previous game a few months ago, I discovered that losing your SSC in the same way is not conducive to early landings either. I had a diplomat and enough cash for bribes, but those barb mounted units were just a little too quick!

I hope you are not too discouraged to give up on these kinds of games since they are fun and don't take much time to finish.

[Smash]

hehehe..oh I''ll always keep playin but this is typical of my early Republic games.Early Republic is nothing new and many players make it work well.Especially in MP.Just when I try it,it never seems to go very well ..Murphy's Law always kicks in

[Grigor]

I have played until 200BC and wanted to get in on the Monarcy-Republic debate. I had a number of Barb incursions but still built two wonders by 1150. Had I thought to develop trade earlier I perhaps could have had a better situation. My play from 1100 to 200 BC was full o one-more-turn-itis

Early Landing #3 (Medium Map) Log

BC
4000 It seems clear where the capital should be, but there should be a special on the ocean square 2 steps East. the other settler moves SW.
3950 SSC and Kaupang founded.
3900 * Research BW for the Phalanx row.

3800 BW=>Alph
3750 Kaupang Warrior uncovers whale.
3550 Alph=>CB
3350 SSC size 2 - work silk for faster settlers.
3150 CB=>CoL
3100* Hladir and Uppsala founded on rivers.
2800 CoL=>Mon (we have 6 of60)
2600 Kaupang builds settlers. Barbs appear to NW - SSC is on a river and should be OK.
2450 Mon=>curr. Rev. Gov: Mon. SSC warrior attacks archer. Loses. Archer red.
2400 Archer attacks Settler, loses. Barb Leader escapes. (Wah)
2350 More Barb Archers appear near Kaupang. change orders to Phalanx.
2250 Aarhus (3-whale), Viborg (river) founded.
2150 Curr=>Trade (0 of 91, 7 turns. )
2100*Barb archer dies on Kaupang Phalanx.
2000 most Powerful: 6. Vikings. Uh=Oh.

1950 Trade=>writing (112) Just in time. Switch Settlers to Caravans.
1700* Writ=>Lit. Decision time: Colossus or MPE? I say Col, with MPE to follow in 8 turns (1300)
1650 SSC builds Colossus.
1550 Zulus destroyed by Russians. Barbs to SW.
1450 Lit=>Rep
1250 Persians start LH
1200 SSC builds Temple.
1150 Rep=>Maps. SSC builds MPE. About 3 turns behind schedule.

MPE investigation shows not much from the AI. All I need now is Maps and Myst. Let Russians learn Mas, maybe they will res Constr. Indians look like they will be will be useless this game.

Indians: Peace, get Maps.
Russians: Peace, give Rep for Myst. No maps yet to aid their research
Spanish Peace Maps
Persians, Peace, Maps
Babs" peace, Maps
English are on Indians continent and are researching Math.

More Decisions: Republic in 1100BC? or wait until 950 and build caravans?

1100* Researching Phil. Need Const before Rep matters. Go for 6 Shakes caravans
1050 Indians are doing Banking! English have Math. English: get Math, peace, maps. I don't see how to trade with anybody else before Nav. OK, now I black click and see some islands off Aarhus.
950* English are researching Constr. Phil soon.
925 Engl build LH. Pearsians change to HG
900 Phil, Astro=>Med. Aarhus builds Trireme. New Continent discovered. One Special mined for SSC.
750* SSC builds Cope's. Persians develop Bank. Revolution
725 Gov: Republic.
700 SSC in Celebration. Roskilde founded on Continent near Spanish.
675 Med=>Univ. English still working on Constr. Persians start IW.
650* SSC Hides to Seville (d, 204) This seems like it should have happened 500 years earlier.
625 English finally develop Constr. Univ=>Chem.
600 575 Persians develop IW. Uppsala Gold to SSC (d, 72g. Last SSC Special discovered. Can't pry Constr from English who are working on Pyr, SSC growth halted at 7.
550* Chem=>ToG
450* Pasgardae builds HG. Indians develop Poly.
425 Persians develop Feudalism. That's good news for the future. Construction from Indians. They are researching Seaf.
325 ToG=> Bank. SSC Hides to Seville (d, 220) Barbs land near Aarhus.
300 SSC builds Shake's. Trade for Bank. Can't get Wheel from Russians. Most Advanced: English(!), Vikes, Indians, Babs, Persians, Spanish, Russians.
275 Russians: peace, Wheel.
225 Delhi builds GL. Russians switch to INC...
200 Econ=>Engineering.

Playing too fast. Time to stop. Build INC before Russians. Eng=>Sanitation. SSC should be big soon. We will get Seafaring from AI soon.

[La Fayette]

I go on playing without helper programs ... with poor results compared with the best players

Anyway, here are the main events in my game on the medium map:

Monarchy: 2050BC
Republic: 125BC
Democracy: 700AD

975BC = Marco
700BC = Colossus
150BC = Shakespeare
180AD = Copernicus
420AD = Isaac
560AD = Michelangelo
740AD = Leonardo
1520AD = Apollo

SSC size 8 : 160AD
SSC size 12: 240AD
SSC size 21: 480AD
SSC max size: 35

Trade: 1450BC
Invention: 520AD
Navigation: 540AD
Corporation: 880AD
Automobile: 1060AD
Flight: 1340AD
Space Flight: 1480AD

AC: 1587AD

Very slow start, several strong barb attacks in BC years, growth of the SSC delayed to AD years, 'satisfying' growth (1 tech/turn) between 500AD and 1200AD, many unwanted techs in the endgame, oh well!