New "Ancient Empires" PBEM created

[Steve Clark]

Agamemnon I leaves the land of Zeus with a set of diverse and interesting cities and a few units on ships trying to reach other civilizations.

Thanks, Paul. It has been memorable.

[La Fayette]

I cannot play before Friday night.
Please skip my turn.

[Stefan Härtel]

As for rights: first come, first serve?

Acceptable

Meanwhile, Persia and Hatti have started negotiations.

To Assyria: Stay tuned, we will be requesting border negotiations in the north before long.

[SlowThinker]

I contacted EZRhino, but now I am confused:
Steve, you speak about 10-days holiday: do you plan to come back?

[tanelorn]

Parley held with multi-party delegations in Hattusas. Minoans, you may still make it with your turn. Stay tuned.

[tanelorn]

IMPORTANT!

As to mapgifs

From the last thread page, 24 (go back and look):

"Getting info from saves
Revealing the starting map is legal, because a player that has already played all civs in SP games has the same info at his disposal."

This was not objected to, as it does not reveal any critical information about the curent game we are in.

Using screenshots of the current game before the discovery of map making is controversial at least. Such detailed current info (position of cities, units, status of huts, barbs) would never be attainable, unless someone used the cheatmode, in a normal game. Moreover, info about third parties is attainable without their consent, pre-contact (though this may be acceptable, gamewise)

After mapmaking, anything (of the above) goes, IMHO.

There was a vote on mapgiving in page 24, what is the verdict?

[SlowThinker]

tanelorn, I see you are awaken, that's good.
I would greet if some rules start to be valid. But...

The post before rules 2 contain these words (in red):

Originally posted by SlowThinker
please send objections if any; concentrate especially to unit giving, city giving; add a vote to map making
please pronounce also that you agree (if you have no objections)

Then you and Steve expressed an opinion that seemed that you consider rules too complicated. Then I asked you to explain it:

Originally posted by SlowThinker
I don't know what to do now. I don't know if you and Tanelorn are willing to learn the rules (yes?-no?). I agree with Kull we cannot force rules that weren't agreed in the beginning...

No answer...
One week later you (and La Fayette) wonder that people exchange screenshots...

I did maximum so that rules are established, it is your turn now.

[tanelorn]

This PBEM is by nature in a radical class of its own, as the scenario itself. It differs primarily in the fact that gameplay evolves as time progresses. Does the concept of maps or borders or in fact rules mean a thing to the man of 3090 b.C. ? Do we have to act simulating that mentality, I wonder? Are we mistaken in our preconceptions, even then? What about the man of 2000 or 1000 b.C. ?

[SlowThinker]

I am completely . Is it a philosophy?
I tried to get you to say if you agree with rules and to vote about map making, I didn't expect such a reaction

[tanelorn]

Well, a scenario about the origins of civilisation in a game called civilisation is bound to get philosophical, one day, don't you think?

What I am saying is that a mapgif from the starting map, instead of the current game with everyones units,cities and fog of war on it saves everyone from this headache of right and wrong. Or instead of a map, descriptions like "from river this to river that" but this too has problems of interpretation.

[SlowThinker]

Hm, screenshots from 3500 - this is a very good idea! I propose we add this to rules.

(Also use of coordinates for defining borders is included in proposed rules - better than "from river this to river that".)

Now you could say how do you look at the rest of rules.

[germanos]

I play on a black map, I don't want to have screenshots of the world in the first turn:

If you don't want to use mapgifs, I'll settle for a description.

Personally I am all for banning all maps until MapMaking.
Just read carefully and ask if things are unclear.

[tanelorn]

What I meant is that mapgifs from the current game should be avoided, before the advent of mapmaking. 3500 bc shots are less informative of the current situation from an in-game shot, and clearer from the point of geography, when drawing borders.
Meaning I already know this river ends there, or there is a barb or a hut there because I have played the game in SP a couple of times , from most player positions and have a marginally working knowledge of geography, right? What more may a 3500 bc map reveal to me about the current game, that I don't already know?

On the other hand, to accept mapgifs from the current game is like opening the cheatmode, because the info on it is up-to-date. City positions, unit positions, resource status are all visible.

I don't get the first point, I thought everyone played on a black map????

[La Fayette]

I am back and ready to play.
I'll play around 18.00 GMT if nobody minds.

[La Fayette]

3090 to Hittites

Sorry for the delay. I thought the game would come to a standstill, due to Steve's departure.
(let us hope his departure is false news )