Great Library Discussion

[Gastrifitis]

There is a picture of the hut/special pattern in the now-increasingly misnamed Info: Settlers/Engineers (text only) file. I hope someone in an administrative capacity will change the name if and when it becomes a part of the GL.

[Species8472]

thank you. i figured it out . the specials pattern is related to the hut pattern. i can now besides the location of previous huts, also find huts because of specials. even the resource seed is related to the hut pattern .

finding huts is now childsplay

to give you an idea of how simple: if i see 1 hut and 1 special, there are only 2 possibilities on where i am on the map. so if i see a hut with a special, i will know in 2 turns ALL the hut locations on the ENTIRE map.

anyone care to play me?

[Species8472]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Sometimes one can be lucky - a start such as this allows the entire hut/special pattern to be fathomed ...
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The SGs in SG(2)'s wine cellar

true,

if there is a special above the ocean square that is above the hut square, you already know all the hut locations and resource locations (excluding the possibility of ocean on a hut square ofcourse).

oops, ignore that about ocean. with clicking in the black or use V i can ofcourse know wheather there is land or ocean.

[Species8472]

we can also conclude from this, that it is IMPOSSIBLE to find an advanced tribe and have no special in the city radius. if there is none, it is hidden. but there is 100% sure a special in the city radius.

[Species8472]

ok, im not done yet. combine this information with the demographics and find out what special your oponent is using in his city. You already know what special you are using and where you are located in the pattern. You now know wheather your opponent is either in the middle of the map, or in top/bottom of the map located. check also if you are 1st in military service or second. that way, you can find out if he found a hut in his first or second turn. Now you know almost the AXACT location of where he is. there are only 2 options, in the start or in the end of a hut pattern or in the middle. His pattern is in direct relation to your location.

You can in the first 3 turns know the exact location of your oponent

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Gastrifitis
I hope someone in an administrative capacity will change the name if and when it becomes a part of the GL.

A link to your thread is in "The Great Library: a hierarchical structure" thread.
The Great Library Index isn't updated frequently, be patient...

[Species8472]

darn, i just found out, that in internet games, it randomizes the specials, while in single player it doesnt.

[Eyes_Of_Night]

HAHAHAHA!! You are a complete moron woke. You've been droning on about this new strategy you think you've invented and you never knew that the specials pattern is broken up in ANY game. It doesn't have to be an internent game.

[Eyes_Of_Night]

And this is what woke is basing his idea on. I wrote this a long time ago so to me it kind of sounds gay in some places. It works on any setting, just depends on how skilled you are at it. As far as I know I'm the only one that has been able to do it successfully.

Locating A Civ Using Demographics

This only works in 1 on 1 games. I'm not saying it doesn't work in larger games, but it's much harder to do and it's not really needed as much. Also this pertains more to duels on a small map. All resource values are assumed to be 2x. It's extremely difficult to do and you have to have a lot of knowledge of the values of resources and how the AI sets the map up, along with an active imagination to visualize how the map looks. Also I am assuming that the age of this map is 3 billion. On 5 billion or 4 billion the resources occur too sporadically to classify into zones. This can’t always be used, but a lot of times it can. Either way you can find out what’s in your opponent’s city view.

1. ZONES

First let us divide the map up into zones. Zone 1 is the artic region, 2 is the part between the artic region and the equator, 3 is the equator, then it goes 2 again and then 1. N1 is the northern artic zone, S1 is the southern artic zone just as N2 and S2 are north and south zones.

2. DESCRIPTION OF ZONE TERRAIN

Of course these descriptions are not set in stone, but can be used as basic guidelines for zone formation.

A. Zone 1

Very bottom region of map. Glacier, Tundra, plains, grassland and forest can be found here. Plains squares are usually sporadic and are fairly rare.

B. Zone 2

Most diverse terrain. Can have just about anything in it. Jungles, and swamps will occur here most, but will sometimes be in zone 3 too. Mountains, hills, grassland, with even the occasional desert square. Mostly grassland however. Usually has the best land on the map.

C. Zone 3

Mostly desert and plains. Forests will occur here but will be sporadic. Occasionally there will be some jungle and swamp in this region but it's usually in patches and not widespread. Mountains many times will occur in large ranges. Grassland will also be seen here, but not in large quantities.

3. RESOURCE ZONES

Most resources occur in these certain zones, but can however be found sometimes out of their normal zones. Water resources are not included. This table shows zones of the resources, and my rough estimates of how often they will occur in these zones. * indicates a zone where the resource will occur only in extremely rare circumstances.

Buffalo: 2-35% 3-65% 1*
Coal: Just about anywhere. Not used in tracking civ.
Desert Oil: 3-80% 2-20%
Arctic Oil: 1-100% 2*
Fruit: 3-30% 2-70%
Furs: 3-60% 2-40% (only very lower regions of Z2)
Game: Same as Furs.
Gems: 2-70% 3-30%
Gold: 3-55% 2-45%
Iron: Same as gold.
Ivory: 3-100% 2*
Oasis: 3-80% 2-20%
Peat: 2-70% 3-30%
Pheasant: ANYWHERE Not as common in 3,1&2 most likely.
Silk: Same as Pheasant.
Spice: 2-70% 3-30%
Wheat: 2-35% 3-65%
Wine: Just about anywhere. harder to use in tracking civ but can give idea and tell what's in view.
4. EXAMPLE SITUATIONS

There are many situations you can tell where a civ is using demographics. It's obviously not a pinpoint of where it is, but it will tell you the zone the player is in.

A. Lets say you start out on a grassland square, no resources around you except for a forest and a lake. It's the first turn of the game, you both have a city. Now lets say you put your resource on the forest and the demographics say you are first in MFG, 2nd in GNP, and 2nd in Food production (FP). Put your resource back on a grassland square. The new values are 2nd GNP, 2nd MFG, 2nd in FP. In this situation if it shows you are first in FP then it's most likely a whale in your opponents capital. If that's the case it's not of much use to you but it does tell you your opponent is near a water source. However, if you're second in FP still then you have to go down the list of possibilities. There aren't very many that can give this combination of high food and high production along with GNP. Of course there could be a double combination of resources where your opponent built on a resource and has another one in view, but that is more rare and far more complicated. We'll assume the simpler combinations for now. A forest is obviously in view. Silk won't give the food but pheasant will. Now in order to get the GNP your opponent has to be on a river. TO test this we put our resource on the lake. If you're now first in GNP then your opponent has a pheasant and a river in view. This doesn't give a clear distinction of what zone your opponent is in, however it does tell what to look for. If you're still second in GNP then there's two resources in play which is far more complicated and would take a lot of writing to explain how to figure out what exactly they're using. But I want to assert that it is definitely possible to figure out what they're using in most cases.

B. Lets take another situation. Same resources in your city as before. You put the resource on the forest just as before, but this time you're second in MFG still. However you're first in FP, second in GNP. It could be that you're tied for first in FP, so take all your resources off and put on an entertainer. Look at the demographics, if you're second for FP then the following could be true: You both have the same resources and are using a forest, a river could explain the higher GNP of the opponent. If you're 1st in FP then your opponent is almost definitely using a combination of iron/oil with a river. To make sure it's a river and not a double resource combination use the lake again. In this case it shows you as first in GNP showing your opponent is using a river. Now the probability that your opponent is using oil on the artic is very low so we'll rule out zone 1. That leaves zone 2 and 3. Now we know that mountains occur in the upper regions of 2 and all along 3 and that oil is primarily in 3. So our target is the equator. It could be very possible that your opponent is on a river with iron down towards the bottom of the map, but it's far more rare.

Obviously there is some room for error using this technique, but it gives you an idea of where your opponent could be and in some cases a very clear idea of where they are. In the examples I know it's a little confusing and I didn't go into all the combinations and possibilities. I basically gave the examples to give you an idea of what this does and how to do it. You can't always use this technique because sometimes there are just too many possibilities. Majority of the time though you can or at least get some sort of advantage from it. Also, there may be a few mistakes up there because it was very hard to explain how to do this and got a little confusing trying to explain all the possible combinations on paper. It takes a lot of experience and a lot of practice to master using this so if you can't get any results on the first few times don't give up on it.


I have alot of other strats too.

[Scouse Gits]

Slow Thinker - well spotted - Quick Thinker

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SG(2)

[Ari Rahikkala]

Or, most probably, he copied the idea and claimed that it was his.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by LightEning
Or, most probably, he copied the idea and claimed that it was his.

You have an amazingly astute grasp of the obvious.

[Species8472]

Originally posted by EyesOfNight
HAHAHAHA!! You are a complete moron woke. You've been droning on about this new strategy you think you've invented and you never knew that the specials pattern is broken up in ANY game. It doesn't have to be an internent game.

it does not matter that the 2 different types of specials are mixed. i can still locate all the huts on the entire map within the first 5 turns. it just needs a little harder thinking, but it is possible.

with luck i can locate all huts in the first turn.

It's you who is the idiot Eyes, because you still dont know the hut pattern, while you think you do. and its so simple.

[SlowThinker]

It would be too drab here without Eyes.
Surprisingly, he is able get some people angry. I am ROTFL everytime I read any of his posts.

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Yeah, so?

I'm not sure how useful a strategy is if it's limited to only head-to-head, 2x2x, 3 billion year games on the first turn. Great, you've narrowed your opponent's possible location to a certain third of the map. Tossing a pat of butter at your monitor would be just as accurate...