Red October v.2.0 playtest

[Cyrion]

Red Morning

My game is now nearly over, and 1920 will see the red flag flying over the whole map!

The last Japanese, Center and Nationalist cities will fall in 1920, as will Lille!

The event with the Poles works fine: they took their city at once from the Center!

But there is one small thing: I suppose that to keep them alive till that point, you gave them a stranded worker somewhere. As I didn't want to wait for their aggression, I attacked them myself and took their 6 cities in one turn (I LOVE the Armoured trains), expecting to destroy their civilization (and their units still on the map)!

This didn't occur, which means I still have to cope with the polish units which are left!

Maybe you could destroy the polish worker 2-3 turns after their units have been created: they would have taken cities at that time anyway!

And to make atttacking the Poles a bit harder, maybe replacing 1-2 railway bed squares so that there is only 1 way for your trains to roll over Poland??

I'll finish my game and post a detailed report Wednesday or Thursday!

[techumseh]

Good work! So it's not so tough, if you know how to approach it.

Are the armoured trains too effective? Perhaps they might be a bit weaker/more expensive?

I might add a non-railbed square on each rail line at the Russian-Polish border. The Russians used broad gauge rails, while the Poles used standard gauge. That way, you could operate armoured trains in Poland, but you would have to first capture a city and build them there.

I suppose I could make a 'changeterrain' event to destroy the Polish worker (now a steam crane), once the Poles take their cities.

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by techumseh
Good work! So it's not so tough, if you know how to approach it.

Yes, once you know how it works, it's doable! But don't judge on my performance: as I was playtesting, some reloading was involved...

Basically, For about 50% of the turns, I tested strategies and reloaded 1-2 times to find 1 which worked! (boo, cheater... )

So if you modify the Commissars things as you wrote, and maybe give a Bolshevik unit once certain cities are first captured by the Reds (Austin-Pulitov for some cities, maybe 1 Armoured train once Omsk is taken, artillery, cavalry...), that should do it nicely and provide a balanced and difficult but doable scenario! )

Are the armoured trains too effective? Perhaps they might be a bit weaker/more expensive?

Not too effective, but maybe raising their cost by 20 shields might be a good idea!

I might add a non-railbed square on each rail line at the Russian-Polish border. The Russians used broad gauge rails, while the Poles used standard gauge. That way, you could operate armoured trains in Poland, but you would have to first capture a city and build them there.

Sounds perfect! That would make destroying the Poles in 1 turn MUCH more difficult!

And keep the situation as it is regarding trains in Germany: no trains there, that would be too easy!

I suppose I could make a 'changeterrain' event to destroy the Polish worker (now a steam crane), once the Poles take their cities.

Exactly my thought! Please do it

Techumseh, I have to say that your scenario simply is one of my favourite ever: it is a struggle from the start (think Red Front, but with some conquest to do too) and then you make the tide turn, with many many surprises and counter-attacks: it's brilliant and a true model of its kind!

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Cyrion
Techumseh, I have to say that your scenario simply is one of my favourite ever: it is a struggle from the start (think Red Front, but with some conquest to do too) and then you make the tide turn, with many many surprises and counter-attacks: it's brilliant and a true model of its kind!

Thanks for that wonderful praise.


I've made lots of changes as a result of playtester's comments, but the revised version needs to be playtested from scratch. Here are the major changes I've made:

1. There is a stranded White settler that is inaccessable so that the White civ will not be destroyed if all the White cities are captured. After the Entente withdraws support for the Whites on turn 29, the settler is eliminated, and the White civ can be destroyed if all its' cities are captured.

2. The stranded Polish settler is destroyed on turn 14, one turn after the Polish insurrection. So once the Poles have established their state, capturing all their cities will now eliminate their civ.

3. Non-railbed terrain now exists on Russo-Polish border squares, so that armoured trains cannot move between the two countries.

4. The Entente, the Nationalists and the Poles are now democracies, so their units and cities can no longer be bribed. The Central Powers, the Whites and the Japanese now have extra techs, so that bribing their cities will be more expensive.

5. Commissars, artillery and armoured trains are all more expensive to build.

6. Armoured trains are weaker on the defense.

7. The Central Powers offensive has been beefed up.

8. Freikorps units cannot be build by the Central Powers unitil the Spartakist Revolution.

I'm looking fore playtesters for the final (I hope) version. I will post it as soon as I get Fairline's steam crane graphic.

[Cyrion]

The changes you described should do it nicely!

But all your modifications will have the result of making the scenario harder, which isn't really necessary!

Don't judge on my "performance" as I've been reloading a lot to test it (and of course Agricola is rather better than the common player ): the scen already hard enough!

So, in addition to your modifications, I would really recommend giving a unit once certain cities are taken! That would balance things + keep in play units which would never be built otherwise (for instance cavalry! I only had the 2 from the start and never built any)

Originally posted by techumseh

4. The Entente, the Nationalists and the Poles are now democracies, so their units and cities can no longer be bribed. The Central Powers, the Whites and the Japanese now have extra techs, so that bribing their cities will be more expensive.

Do the number of techs influence the bribing cost?

I'll finish my game and test the new version once you send it!

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Cyrion

Do the number of techs influence the bribing cost?

I have to admit that I'm not certain. I do know that in vanilla games, it is very expensive to bribe cities of civs that are ahead technologically.

I'll finish my game and test the new version once you send it!

Thanks. This will be an open playtest, so I hope others will give it a shot as well.

[McMonkey]

I would be interested in giving this a test Tech. I have PM'd you my e-mail address. I'm not the best playtester but at least you can get some feedback from a player of average skill level.

[Cyrion]

Final report (for that version)

So here we go again!

Jan. 19: the Poles take 6 Center cities; Japanese units appear near Khaborovsk

Feb. 19: Entente fleet empties Sevastopol; peace signed with Poles; french units land near (white) Odessa; Mkhno in Ukraine; 4 first bolchevik Partizans appear in Siberia, as well as 24 Spartakists! (thanks to komintern Wonder!). The Spartakists seize Hamburg, Essen, Leipzig and Prag, and kill all units in Berlin!

March 19: Brits take Kandalashka which is bribed back for 130 gold, giving back: 81 gold + 2 brit infantries. Berlin is taken, giving “Leonardo Wonder”: red guards are upgraded to conscripts; Koln, Minsk and Tampere are taken. Much rushbuilding and production reorganization.

Apr 19: Entente takes Sevastopol which is bribed back for 120 gold, giving back 60 gold, 1 french cav + 1 vet cruiser! Hannover, Oulu (last nationalist city in Finland), Frankfurt, Samarkand and Bukhara are taken.

May 19: Kolchak appears near Seva. Center retake Frankfurt; former french cruiser sinks entente cruiser! Reval, Breslau, Odessa and Frankfurt are taken. I bribe Ashkabad for 400g (60 g, 2 infantry units)

June 19: Bucharest is bribed from Entente for 249g (41g, 1 french cav, 1 french inf)

July 19: Denikin's Offensive appeared only as a message, I never saw any unit! Riga taken

Aug 10: Stuttgart taken

Sept 19: Konigsberg taken

Oct 19: all Polish cities taken: Lemburg, Brest-Litovsk, Vilna, Danzig, Warsaw and Krakow; nonetheless, the civ isn’t destroyed. Budapest and Pishpek are taken, White civ destroyed

Nov 19: 2 jap cruisers attack Vladivostok and die (coastal fortress+ fortified vet train );
Vienna and Istanbul taken from center; Khiva taken; cities taken from Japanese: Harbin, Changchun, Shenyang; Koln taken from Entente

Dec 19: Land Reform discovered; research for Rev Military Coun

Jan 20: Malmo taken after air attack; Stockholm, Amsterdam and Ankara taken; Zinchow bribed for 349 gold (3 warlord Inf.)

Feb 20: Copenhagen taken : Nationalist civ destroyed. Lille captured: Entente destroyed. Samsun, Pyonyang and Peking taken

March 20: Yudenich's Offensive + End of Entente support for Whites: messages only as both Entente and White no longer exist! Sivas, Tientsin and Port Artur taken

April 20: Erzurum and Chongjin taken; 4 cities left: 2 Center , 1 Warlord et 1 Japanese

May 20: Russo-Polish War begins: apparition of Polish planes (and planes only). Discovery of Rev Military Coun., researching Red Army. Pusan taken: Japanese destroyed! Ulaan Bataar bribed from Walrord. Damascus bribed from Center for 1100g!

June 20: Polish planes don’t attack, even though I have been attacking them after their creation! They move east, and the fighter even crash due to lack of fuel! Peasant revolt: some Kulaks try to interfere, but they have no chance! Bagdhad taken: Center destroyed! The whole map is mine(except for a lonely stranded polish worker wondering what just happened, so the game doesn’t stop )!

General comments:
- Very clever use of pollution!
- The correct spelling is: "Arc de Triomphe"
- I had tremendous fun!

[curtsibling]

This sounds exciting!

Does the Leo Workshop wonder play havoc with the Commies when they take Berlin?

Like the Red Army becoming German Infantry, etc?

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by curtsibling
This sounds exciting!

It is!

Does the Leo Workshop wonder play havoc with the Commies when they take Berlin?

Like the Red Army becoming German Infantry, etc?

Not at all, my Red Guards (weak infantry) are simply upgraded to red Conscripts (slightly better), so it works fine!

[curtsibling]

Excellent!

It's good to see the Workshop being used properly!

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by curtsibling
Excellent!

It's good to see the Workshop being used properly!

Actually, I'm not sure it was intended for player's use, but rather to upgrade the Center units!

Nonetheless, it still works fine once in reds hands!

[Cyrion]

@ Tech: Just one last comment before you send your update

I really believe that all the modifications you described will answer all the points we found out during our playtest, but they will have the effect of making the game much harder!

I'm afraid the game might be too hard if they are not somehow balanced by a few gifted units once some cities are taken in the first part of the scen!

I know I already mentionned it, but...

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Cyrion
@ Tech: Just one last comment before you send your update

I really believe that all the modifications you described will answer all the points we found out during our playtest, but they will have the effect of making the game much harder!

I'm afraid the game might be too hard if they are not somehow balanced by a few gifted units once some cities are taken in the first part of the scen!

I know I already mentionned it, but...

I'm not convinced, given AGGIE and your lopsided victories. I'd like to playtest it again to see how the changes work together, and especially the impact of 3 civs now being democracies. McMonkey has agreed to give it a go, and others are welcome.

I will release it for an open playtest just as soon as Fairline is well enough to make that Steam Crane unit.

[techumseh]

Originally posted by curtsibling
Excellent!

It's good to see the Workshop being used properly!

Have no fears, Curt.

The purpose of the St. Leo's Workshop (Social Democratic Party) wonder in Berlin is to convert 5 types of German and Austro-Hungarian static units into their mobile equivalents when the Central Powers offensive begins on turn 4, and then when the Germans sign the Armistice in Nov 1918 (turn 12), turn all 5 types into helpless 'deserter' units.

I considered making the wonder obsolete if Berlin was captured by the Bolsheviks, but decided against it. If the German revolution had succeeded, the technological, industrial, and organizational resources available to the Bolsheviks would have been much greater; so upgrades of units, even in Russia, would not be far fetched.