The Bloody Monk HOF Celebration Succession Game!!!

[defrancoj]

ok. got it
now what if you don't have teh cash to outright buy it
can't IRB be used to smooth things out and not waste too many shields
I'm sort of figuring that out on my own but I imagine it's a pretty automatic process for you guys by now.

Thanks for the guidance

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by defrancoj
I intend to choose Philosophy because I think it would be foolish to rush into republic too early while we still need shields for the SSC wonders.

You don't have to switch to Republic after you research it.
The idea was to research Republic, stay in Monarchy, and give Republic to Indians. Then Indian cities will have more arrows and our trade revenues will be higher.

[defrancoj]

well. That would have been pretty smart. I'm sorry I missed your point about that when reading your posts, especially now that I have
vans heading to the Indian capital right now.

[defrancoj]

Log and commentary to follow.

[defrancoj]

The log:



(875 BC) Turn 1:

Wise men turn their attention toward Philosophy.
Exploration of the east continues.
Controversial wine mining begins. This square will be forever known as the DeFranco Wine-Caves.

(850 BC) Turn 2:
Americans discover Pottery
I am tyring to learn IRB as I go
Saragossa builds Trireme.
Moving caravans toward Valencia for HG.
Elvis in Strabo's because we're going to have a redhat next turn
Everyone is "Hostile" toward us except the Indians, who are "Receptive," which is good because I plan to send two caravans to their capital soon.

(825 BC) Turn 3:
Building some warriors in preparation for pop increases.
Strabo's is now size 4.
Eyeing (87,23) for the next city.

(800 BC) Turn 4:
Salamanca commissions diplomat.
Not sure what to do with the settler between Valladolid and Seville now that the connecting road is finished. Probably going to connect Seville to Salamanca, going around the river-bend.
Beginning HG in Valencia, with three caravans waiting to complete it.
Once HG is built, I can add one or two cities without worrying about any red-hats that might crop up in other cities.
I like (89,15) for a city too, even if it's a little far off.

(775 BC) Turn 5:
Trireme loaded on the west coast. Destination: Delhi. Indians remain "receptive."
Sending settler to (87,23) building roads as I go.

(750 BC) Turn 6:
Building settler at Strabo's so I can improve wheat tiles around the SSC.
Increasing Science allocation because I want to discover Philosophy by the time the trireme reaches Delhi.

(725 BC) Turn 7:
"Civil Disorder in Valladolid. Mayor flees in panic!"
Well, I guess I screwed up. I thought I was on top of this but one slipped through. When the trireme buidlign there is finished it will have to stay put until a warrior can be built.

(700 BC) Turn 8:
Pirates spotted in the Southern Sea (82, 38). Dispatching diplo and chariot just in case. Thinking of building a third diplo for defense.

(675 BC) Turn 9:
Two Barb Archers and the barb leader land in the south. If they stay stacked, they could threaten Barcelona.
Spanish wise men discover Philosophy and Seafaring and turn their attention toward The Republic.
Tax allocation maximized: tax70 sci30 lux0
Sargossa: Silk caravan, to go west to India.
Valladolid: Trireme
Not doing any IRB this turn because cash might be needed to bribe archers.

(650 BC) Turn 10:
The Indians are now "hostile" toward us and they have allied with the Vikings to "contain our aggression. Since Delhi and Madras and other Indian cities are on the coast, this fact shouldn't affect us too much. I hesitate to offer them techs right now because I feel we should have some in reserve for when they inevitably threaten us.
The chariot and diplomat are in position to repel barbarians from Barcelona, should they continue to encroach.
The DeFranco Wine-Caves are complete. Feeding Seville might be a little bit of a problem, which I leave to my successor.

Commentary:

I agree with SlowThinker that my very first decision was not the optimal one. I didn't think to go for Republic with the intention of giving it to the AI, and I missed his suggestion that we do that when I was reading over the thread.

I increased the science rate to get Philosophy in time for trading. Well, I got it a bit ahead of schedule; the trading ship is still a couple of turns away from its Indian destination. Hopefully this will not lead to a waste of beakers down the line.

We should have HG and Colossus within a few turns, at which point I would imagine that getting trade routes established between the SSC and foreign cities becomes a priority. I don't know whether I would improve the wheat squares, which effort would be "wasted" when they turn to silk, or just turn one to silk right now, or improve other tiles.

IRB: I have been finishing off lines in the shield box and then letting the city add its shields the next turn. I didn't do any mathematical analysis of this method but it seemed to be the best way to spend our limited tax revenues at this point.

[-Jrabbit]

One-row rushbuilding is the most cash-effective, but slower. Once the foreign income starts rolling in, we should be able to create a steady stream of camels.

I'm disappointed to see we don't have the Gardens in place yet, as we will want to get more cities down in advance of Republic. Curious to know whether there is Hides demand out there anywhere, and whether that Silk camel came from a Hides-supplying city..

Hard to comment on anything other than your commentary. Still can't open files, not even the zip. I have no idea what's different from my old setup...

Maybe I'll try to borrow a PC laptop from Ming so I can play...

[rjmatsleepers]

One small point about wonder building. It's usually more effective to build using only vans because these can be IRB whereas the wonder can't. If you stockpile the vans until you have enough, the wonder can be built in a single turn.

RJM

[SlowThinker]

Maybe I should stress the idea of the trade with India is to establish a ship chain eventually.

[-Jrabbit]

Ship chains are problematic in Republic as I recall, yes?
And is that problem solved by a certain WoW?

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
Ship chains are problematic in Republic as I recall, yes?
And is that problem solved by a certain WoW?

I don't recollect the ship chain problem, let alone the wonder that solves it. Remind me?

RJM

[SlowThinker]

Bach makes cities of size 2 always content.
But even without Bach you can simply let cities that support ships in disorder, or hire Elvises.

[StuporMan]

RJM,

The problem with ship chains and republic is that unless you are using Galleons or Transports, your ships count as military units. In Republic and Democracy, these cause unhappiness when outside of a city. Shakespeare's Theater removes all unhappiness from a city and thus can be used to counteract this problem.

StuporMan

[Bloody Monk]

defrancoj

For your first SG turnset this is a good beginning. Commentary follows.

Okay, we are looking at 650bc and about to begin camel deliveries. We are working on HG, could use some more Setts, both for readying Val for growth and for more cities, and a few dips at the Civ corners, for Barb control, might be a good idea. Many possibilities await.

Who wants to be next?? Our Rabbit has been snared in a bad box so the floor is open. Hello to old friends Grigor and StuporMan!! "Would you like to play...a game??"

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

defrancoj,

--Research Path Choices
With overseas deliveries, the research box will fill up with each camel, at this stage, so the choices of what to research will come quickly. You missed the point ST was making about getting Republic and giving it away to all AI's. This is an old trick used to max trading bonuses. I understand that you missed it; that happens. But it isn't that big a deal. Deliveries will still fill the box.

But, here's the deal. When you chose Phil, our 13th tech, that meant the next choice, barring a tech trade, would be either Seafaring or Horse. (I'll attach a copy of a previous post that will explain how that is knowable. Unfortunately, I failed, all those years ago, to note who originally wrote this.) To my mind, neither of those choices are good: Horse we can skip unless an AI doesn't research Chivalry for us; and Sea, I like to avoid as long as possible, to forestall Navigation. Completing Nav (& Invention) drastically cuts the delivery bonus from trade.

What to do in such a case?? Make a tech trade to increase the number of our techs and change the list of choices. Wait 4 turns, get your cash balance below 50g, and contact the Japanese. Both the Japanese and the Greeks have a tech we will need, Polytheism (as opposed to techs we would want to skip). I'd pick the Japs because they have fewer techs, giving us more trade bait with them. Give them techs until they are Neutral, and trade for Poly. When Phil completes, you can get Monotheism (now on the list) as the free tech and then choose Republic. Mono allows for Mike's Chapel, along with HG, keeping happiness problems at bay.

You wait 4 turns between contact with AI or they will shut you down and you'll never get them happy enough to trade techs with them. Also, always remind yourself to spend down your cash balances before making contact or they will demand gold before talking to you.

Here is another idea for the early game. One of the key techs you will need to grow your SSC is Construction which allows Aquaducts. Usually you can get the AI to research it for you, thereby skipping Masonry. But to do this they must have Currency. So make sure you give that away to everyone, especially any AI that already has Mason.

I love this aspect of Civ2, that you have to think several steps down the road to keep things flowing smoothly. Multi-dimensional chess must be like this. Anyway, hope this is helpful.

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

Make a Plan

defrancoj,

I think making a plan for the turnset is very helpful in deciding things along the way. After looking things over there will usually be several competing ideas that spring to mind...trade, research, WOWs, more cities, more Setts for roads and site prep, etc. You can accomplish more than one, but unless something changes, you should favor your main goal.

You decided on trade, apparently. But, here's a few questions...

--Why not build a city between the Grapes and Salamanca?? Either location would shorten the time to Saragossa, something that facilitates trade.
--Why stockpile the camels by Val rather than building HG?? (As noted by rjm, build WOW by converting camels rather than building from scratch. Just "deliver" the camel to the WOW city and chose, "Help build wonder.") Shouldn't some of the 7 camels at Val be sent west or to the other city building a boat??
--Disorder happens without micromanagement. Anytime you build a city, at this point, or a city grows, disorder is a possibility. Make sure you check all cities after planting a new one, and watch closely the cities that are about to fill the food box. One thing you can do is to unfortify a worker in that city to remind you to check it. When the food box is full, make an Elvis for that turn and check after it grows to see if a worker will be tolerated w/o a redface.
--Having extra dips is a good idea for dealing with Barbs. Building cities on/near spawn points will keep the spawn from happening.
--The post, 111 by -Jrabbit, about finishing HG quicker, building more cities, and concentrating on Hides camels is very important. The first two make us more secure and powerful. Hitting the Hides-go-round is due to a bug in the Civ2 code. Hides demand does not dry up with delivery. It does end though and so does our Supply stop, so pushing out Hides for delivery is a great idea, as long as it lasts.
--Ship Chains in Republic
In Republic, each city can have one unit in the field without disorder, zero in Democracy. Shake's allows for units afield but is built in the SSC to allow it unlimited growth.

Monk