The Bloody Monk HOF Celebration Succession Game!!!

[SlowThinker]

I don't remember clearly, but I think AI needs about 10 turns for a wonder completion (I mean from a point where a start is announced to the completion)?
Are there any exceptions.

(My last idea is to delay HG: one of two completed vans is a hides van (Barc), two others are being completed in the cities with hides supply (Strabo+Val). So one trireme may be sent immediately.
Presently HG is not necessary, funds should be invested into Trade with Indians, Bridges cities may be delayed.

AI is imitating human, isn't it? Maybe they delay their WoWs if we delay ours.

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by SlowThinker
Again, just my view:

BM said "--Building on a river = +1 arrow, not two"
Both workers of 69,13 would work on the river (3 arrows), while 71,13 would produce 1 arrow only. So 2 arrows difference.

This is the most absurd thing I have read in a long time. In order for your argument to stand, you have to assume away the worker in my city. This is ridiculous!!

City 'ST': Builds on river, places worker on river. arrows: 2 + 1 = 3
City 'BM': Builds on grass, places worker on (same) river. arrows: 1 + 1 = 2
In most cases, 3 - 2 = 1.

So 1 arrow difference.

That this point is so hard for you to get makes me say to all the rest...Enough already.

---

I am hesitating to add more turns now, we are on a cross-road and rather the next player should make the decisions needed.
(I 'decided' the Marco already...)

Okay, I take this to mean SlowThinker resigns and "the next player should make the decisions needed."

Who will be next??
-Jrabbit, did you get things working from the zip file??
defrancoj, can you play today if the rabbit cannot??

We have had 19 hours of discussion. It's time to play the game. Civ2 is a marvelous game because so many bifurcations twig from the decision tree. Analysis can become paralysis. The resolute man knows how to act Out of the myriad possibilities, one is chosen; and the result is progress.

Monk Oh, and let's have fun!!

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
City 'ST': Builds on river, places worker on river. arrows: 2 + 1 = 3
City 'BM': Builds on grass, places worker on (same) river. arrows: 1 + 1 = 2

It is me who will deliver the final hit:

You announced you wanted to place a worker on the irrigated grassland, because of +1 food. Now I see you want simultaneously place that worker on "my" river, in order for your argument to stand and to get also +1 arrow.
But my staff will kick your cottars off

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by SlowThinker
It is me who will deliver the final hit:

You announced you wanted to place a worker on the irrigated grassland, because of +1 food. Now I see you want simultaneously place that worker on "my" river, in order for your argument to stand and to get also +1 arrow.
But my staff will kick your cottars off

I never said that. You are making up silliness to make your argument work. To say that building on the grass prevents the nearby irrigated grass from being orphaned in no way indicates placing a worker on that tile until it gets a road. Only a fool, an AI-like fool, would chose food over arrows.

As for delivering the final hit, you have forgotten that I began by putting on my robe and wizard hat (post 18); your staff and magic is weak and leaves no mark!! It seems all you do is talk. You are lacking the courage of your convictions and chose to retire rather than play. I understand though. Playing requires making decisions and acting on them. Endlessly talking about the 3rd, 4th, and then the 5th integral of 'what if' doesn't advance the game thru time.

But, enough of this. You can do as you like but I am looking forward to the next player's save. That will be a whole new world.

---

I have just had my computer privileges pulled due to the latest vitals. The caretaker said something like, 'You are not going to have another stroke on my watch.' So I'll be dark at least until tomorrow. You folk have fun!!

Someone should call the game and play. Play 10 turns from the last save, 900bc. It's been 3.5 hours and the 'at ready' players have not chimed in. If someone can play right now, go for it. Do what you will.

Monk

[Verrucosus]

I'm sorry to find a humorous note here, but I could not help imagining the conversation you had with that caretaker agreeing to stay off the computer for some time, but convincing him that you first had to respond to SlowThinker's last post: "He thinks that I would put a worker on 73,13 before it gets a road! I have to set that straight!" Please, take good care of yourself.

Hopefully, _jr can open the zipped save. Also defrancoj said he could play on Monday morning, so one way or another they will have something to show by the time you are back.

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Verrucosus
I'm sorry to find a humorous note here...

You are indeed outrageous ... to search humorous notes in our fatally serious debate of honour and shame ...!

[SlowThinker]

Only now I am realizing how stupid I was by giving all techs to Indidans (Key Civ) hastily:
* we may want high tech cost now (in order to raise the science cap of deliveries)
* we need keep Indians in a good mood continuously (so that they don't kill our vans), but I depleted all techs already.

[defrancoj]

I call it. I'll play my turns tomorrow morning (EST), when I'll have a day's respite from the firehouse. I'll try not to run this ship aground, and I'll make another post in a few hours about where we stand and stuff.

My first succession game, here I come!

[-Jrabbit]

Go for it! Just micromanage toward specific goals, with gusto and conviction. And camels. Oh, and don't forget to do ongoing intelligence to track AI civ activities.

In other words, do as I say and not as I do!

[Grigor]

Wow, what a fabulous discussion! Two heavyweights duking it out! And on the subject of my personally weakest phase of the game, too - if I ever get to play again

I love the city placement fight! - a classic battle of competing advanages. Once the road or railroad network is in place there is no difference in movement. However, River placement saves time and therefore money until bridge building, at the cost of keeping the city small longer. Non-river placement takes advantage of a previous mistake (the irrigated square) and will allow a larger city quicker. How is one to weigh those competing advantages? I guess it depends on how fast one gets Bridge Building. And that would seem to give the edge to faster van movement.

Whoever takes the torch - consider the rapid trade plan carefully. Once the hides vans start paying off there will be plenty of money for temples. Every temple built now is a van which could have been delivered sooner.

Build HG with the first 4 non-hides vans.

I think Slow's basic point is that buying is always faster than building. What do you think BM?

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Grigor
...
Non-river placement takes advantage of a previous mistake (the irrigated square) and will allow a larger city quicker.
...

Irrigating that tile may have been wrong, but it wasn't a mistake. It was the quickest way to get water to the wine tile. If you look at my sig, you will see that I regard these things as important.

RJM

[SlowThinker]

defrancoj, go for it and don't forget to show who is the Spanish leader now: choose neither BM's nor ST's city location , and choose also the general strategy yourself.

[defrancoj]

ok, here I go.

I intend to commission our civ's navy, starting probably in Saragossa.
I think we should start trading as it won't be long before we'll want to rush some temples.
I intend to choose Philosophy because I think it would be foolish to rush into republic too early while we still need shields for the SSC wonders.
Exploration to the east will continue.
I am not a very good diplomat w.r.t the AI, but I'll do my best to keep us at peace and not acquire off-path techs.
My current feeling on the next city location: not (71,13) or (69,13). We have plenty of fertile land on the frontiers if we really want more cities. I'll mine the grapes and finish the roads, however.
We can't wait any longer on the SSC. Valencia will have to do. We can get fast growth without too much terraforming initially, and silks later on. I'm going for it.
Therefore, HG and Colossus remain high priorities, but camels that I think will pull decent revenue will be sent west.

I can be IMed at AIM: DeFrancoj or jimamberger.hotmail.com --feel free to check up on me.

[defrancoj]

oh... and some advice about IRB, which I never really incorporated into my game for various reasons, would be appreciated.

[DaveV]

Incremental rushbuilding: pointless on buildings and wonders, but very useful for caravans.

Best way to rush a caravan: let shields accumulate for one turn, then switch to a warrior and rushbuy it (22 or fewer gold, depending on how many shields you have in the box). Switch to a phalanx, rush it (25 gold). Switch to a diplo, rush it (25 gold). Switch to a settler, rush it (25 gold). Switch to a camel, rush it (25 gold). Total spending, a bit more than 100 gold. It would be about twice that much if you just rush the caravan with a couple shields in the box. If your city is generating five shields/turn, you can skip the last step (rushbuying the caravan) and get your caravan in three turns instead of two, with a savings of 25 gold.